Prepare Yourself...the SLAM is coming!

[Tonic1080]

Hello all, new to the forum but long-time reader. I have spent three years with my first pool trying to get my hands around managing it. I've gone through over a dozen pool companies and have resigned to the fact that I will need to manage it myself.
I've had some limited success with limited knowledge to get me through last summer (what little I have is thanks to you fine folks). Now I need to fully educate myself and really get my pool trouble-free.

Prepare Yourself...the SLAM is coming!
As you can see from the picture below, half-measures haven't worked. (the spa is clear because I drained/refilled it)


Current specs are... (provided by pool store, self-test kit has been ordered but not here yet)
FC: 10+ (max for store test)
TC: 10+ (max for store test)
pH: ~8.0 (max for store test, was 7.8 yesterday)
TA: 0, or close enough to 0 that it didn't register on store test three days in a row.
CH: 500 (local water is a base of 250 from the hose)
CYA: 125
Pretty clear I need to replace most of my water but daily temperatures are already in the 90s. I have started partially draining and refilling about 20% at a time (using my spa as the replacement reservoir) at night when temperatures dip into the 70s.
Once I can get the CYA down to acceptable levels from cycling out water over the next two or three nights, I plan to use 10% liquid chlorine to SLAM the pool into submission.

My main question before starting the SLAM is what about that Total Alkalinity being near 0? Do I need to address that before I try to balance down my pH? I know that adding the acid to bring the pH down would also drop my TA, but if that's already almost gone, do I need to bring the TA back up with.....37 lbs of baking soda?!?!....before starting the SLAM process (or before using acid to bring down the pH)?

Thanks in advance and appreciate all your help so far.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
It is not possible to have a TA of 0 and pH of 8. So that is how good those pool store tests are.

Once you are done diluting your CYA down to 50 ppm or so, I would suggest adding 10 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each evening into the pool until you get your test kit.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.

 

[Richard320]

I agree with Marty: don;t trust those pool store results. The pH and TA do not make sense. They can't be right. And 125 for CYA is more likely a guesstimate since it's off the scale. You'll need to replace a bunch of water if it's anywhere near that number, so you might as well wait for the kit to know how much.

What you can do, if you must do something, is brush and vacuum. The more stuff you can loosen up and get out first, the faster the SLAM will go.

 

[Tonic1080]

Hah! I have a developed a rather strong distrust of my local pool store but there were certain things I just couldn't test with the basic strips and FC/pH kit I have on hand. When I need to use them, I try and get multiple-days of tests, hopefully from multiple people, to get some sort of a general sample of the answer I need. And a perk for them, if I do end up needing a few more bags of trichlor, I'll get it then instead of heading over to the hardware store.

Thanks for the advice both. The eBook and Pool School details on the site are excellent. They are how I've gotten by in past years. That TA vs. pH numbers were really throwing me off though. The last two days, they had CYA in the 300-range (I know it didn't drop 50% from a 20% water-cycling). Is there any ideas on what particular thing in the tests would be throwing off the CYA and TA measurements so much? I'm just curious if it's potentially something I should keep an eye out for to avoid making the same mistakes in my own testing.

Thanks again!

 

[mknauss]

Very high FC can change the color you see when TA testing. See the Extended Test Directions in Pool School.

CYA over 100 is very difficult to measure. And pool stores rarely get CYA testing correct anyway.

 

[LTPOrangePool]

I'm just starting getting my experience with the test kits now. I can tell you to stop trying to rationalize the results that you were getting from the pool store. I think their heart is in the right place, but rushed tests combined with the variable of different people looking at them produce skewed results. For example, some TDS/phosphate numbers I've been given recently with chlorine the only addition:
4/16- tds-900, phosphate 300
4/18- tds- 100, phosphate 1000
4/25 tds- 800, phosphate 100

For me, it looked like the pool store did a similar CYA test, but never once have they given the solution a few minutes for the chemicals to do their thing.

 

[Tonic1080]

I'm just starting getting my experience with the test kits now. I can tell you to stop trying to rationalize the results that you were getting from the pool store. I think their heart is in the right place, but rushed tests combined with the variable of different people looking at them produce skewed results.

That one was the big one for me, how rushed they usually were. Sometimes it was the person running tests that I was unsure of and rarely was I the only one in the store (so they were hurrying to get on to the next person).
That's a good point I'll keep in mind, not to rush the tests. Even when I feel I am rushing my own tests I currently do, I find myself taking more time to get an accurate readings because....well, I care...it's my pool.

 

[Deb04]

You mentioned you buy Trichlor. That adds CYA, so you might as well switch to liquid now. You’ll never get your CYA to where you need it if you keep using Trichlor

 

[Mackhatter]

Tonic- welcome from a new guy too. Nobody is going to love your backyard baby better than you. Ask specific questions to the experts here and it will be the quickest and least expensive way to get to a good resolution. Then, (like me) find the pool store you like the best and simply let them be your supply outlet.

 

[Tonic1080]

Update: The SLAM is Here? (maybe not)

I have cycled out about 50%+ of the water over the last week as I've been fortunate with weather remaining mainly under 80' (at least if i drain/refill at night) but today the highs are back in the 90s and I will not likely see another sub-80 day for the next couple months.
Oddly, after replacing the water over the week (during which I didn't add ANY chemicals, no chlorine), my tests came out almost ideally balanced....though the pool isn't clear so I know that won't last.

Current specs are...
FC: 8 (down from 14+)
TC: 8 (<1 CC)
pH: 7.4
CYA: ~100 (maybe as low as 90, but difficult to tell at that level with the test, maybe I'm just imagining that I can see the dot)

Since I won't be able to drain more for the time being (so stuck with CYA where it is), I've started working on clearing the pool.
- Added 4 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine to drive up my FC last night
- This morning, the pool has green to it, was hoping for foggy grey, though it's not soupy (hasn't been "soupy" in a couple weeks, just foggy).
- I'm actually starting to think the "green" isn't algae growth but a bad combination of brown dust (we just had a storm) and my light blue plaster siding, in which case I just need to give my filter time to work? (I guess that should be a question to experts here, not a statement)

You mentioned you buy Trichlor. That adds CYA, so you might as well switch to liquid now. You’ll never get your CYA to where you need it if you keep using Trichlor

Thanks Deb....that's exactly the train of thought I am riding right now. Which leads me to my next big question...

How can I maintain balanced chlorine long-term without increasing CYA?
I understand how to shock and not add CYA (Cal Hypo or Liquid) but what about when I need to go back to tablets (Dichlor/Trichlor) without making my CYA skyrocket again? Since I have high stabilizer already, will that work for un-stabilized chlorine I add now? Or is "stabilizer" a misnomer and the sun will still burn up my liquid chlorine? I saw there are Cal Hypo tablets but that they need a specialized feeder.
Does stabilizer left over from other chlorine (dichlor/trichlor) provide the same stabilizing effect to other un-stabilized sources added later (liquid/CalHypo)? Is it possible to maintain a pool with "shock" sources so long as your stabilizer (CYA) remains elevated?
I believe this is the persistent source of my problems with my pool over the last couple years so I'm eager for a longer term solution on this one.

Tonic- welcome from a new guy too. Nobody is going to love your backyard baby better than you. Ask specific questions to the experts here and it will be the quickest and least expensive way to get to a good resolution. Then, (like me) find the pool store you like the best and simply let them be your supply outlet.

Thanks Mackhatter. Unfortunately, my preferred pool store was bought out by Leslie Pools (who was already in town) and closed down. At this point, we don't have any other local alternatives. I've educated myself on how to check the "freshness" of chemicals (identifying manufacture date on bar code serial numbers) and just buying from the local Ace Hardware.

 

[Mr Bruce]

...
How can I maintain balanced chlorine long-term without increasing CYA?
...
Does stabilizer left over from other chlorine (dichlor/trichlor) provide the same stabilizing effect to other un-stabilized sources added later (liquid/CalHypo)? Is it possible to maintain a pool with "shock" sources so long as your stabilizer (CYA) remains elevated?

You add liquid chlorine or get a SWCG.

Yes and yes, but specifically mainly with liquid chlorine. .

Did you ever get a test kit? If so that can go in your signature as well.

 

[Tonic1080]

You add liquid chlorine or get a SWCG.
Yes and yes, but specifically mainly with liquid chlorine. .
Did you ever get a test kit? If so that can go in your signature as well.

Thanks Bruce. I did get the Taylor 2006C test kit (in sig now).
That's great to learn about using liquid chlorine. I often wondered when people talked about that if they meant they were using it for shock or replacing tablets entirely. As my water out here is pretty hard to start with (250-300 min calcium out of the hose) I prefer to avoid Cal Hypo due to the calcium.