Pool Stains

[Riverhog14]

Hello all! I am happy I stumbled across this forum. Pool owner for going on 3 years now, salt water pool, gunite (plaster?) finish, about 17,000 gallons. I actually found this forum when trying to get some help with a pool leak I have been fighting for about the past 2 years. That project is partially solved / partially unsolved (discovered suction side leak in multiple old plastic ball valves by the pump - so re-plumbed those, however am still getting a water leak and the pool level drops about 1 inch a week - sometimes - its really strange, I think I know where the leak is now ((pool plumbing in pool-cleaner port)) and I'm just letting my pool drain until it stops draining to completely isolate the leak. Also preforming this work in winter time in central Florida at a time when evaporation will be much less than summer).

But that is not what brings me here today. Its winter time, we aren't using the pool, so in my leak detection experiment, I have shut my pool pump off to help with finding the leak. With that being said, while I'm waiting on the level to drop, I would like to get some information on a splotchy / light green stain that has been accumulating on the pool gunite. This light stain is not new - it has slowly been getting worse for about the past year now. I feel as if the last couple weeks, however, it has become increasingly worse. I'm going to post photo's for now, and I will post pool water chemistry as soon as I have time to run to the pool store to have my water tested.

PS don't judge my dirty pool, like I said I'm in leak detection mode so the pump has been off!!

Thanks in advanced,
-Calvin

**Quick Edit: Pool was filled by well water (again located in Central FL), all of the pool plumbing / and plumbing from well to the hose bib used to fill the pool is PVC (not copper pipes), if that information helps.
-Calvin

 

[ajw22]

Calvin, welcome to TFP.

I suspect iron staining since you are on well water.

Put a paste of Vitamin C in a sock and rub it in the stains and see if it lifts.

Stains in Your Pool

The stained pool is beyond embarrassing. Our in-depth Guide to remove stains in your pool will help you to remove the stains and prevent them in the future.

www.troublefreepool.com

Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

We find Pool Store tests too unreliable and don’t give water chemistry advice based on them. We recommend your own testing with the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits

I suggest you go through Pool Care Basics

 

[Riverhog14]

Thank you so much!! Ill try the Vitamin C test.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Riverhog, did you do it??? How'd it work for you?

Maddie

 

[Riverhog14]

Riverhog, did you do it??? How'd it work for you?

Maddie

My Asorbic Acid just came in. I put some in a spot and it had no effect. My pool pump / salt water chlorinator has been off. I tested my water PH with a test strip and it looks close, but I believe its going to be a tad above 7.2. I think my PH is too high for it to work I'm assuming???? Going to have to pick up some more muratic acid and lower PH. Got to go to work now but I'll tinker some more next week!!

 

[Riverhog14]

OK so here is my chemistry:
Total Chlorine 0
Free Chlorine 0
Combined Chlorine 0
pH 7.8
Total Alkalinity 200 ppm
Calcium Hardness 225 ppm
Stabilizer 0 ppm
Salt 5000 ppm

OK so I did good letting the chlorine get to 0. Other than that, I added 2 gallons of muriatic Acid to drop the pH to below 7.2, and to also drop the total alkalinity. Like I said before, I have been dealing with a leak over the past 2 years and therefore adding (well) water, and therefore adding salt from time to time, when the hayward system told me I was low. Apparently my Hayward salt system is way out of calibration. The guys at pinch a penny recommended draining about 1/2 of my pool and then refilling to drop the salt. I was thinking about draining about 1/3 of it, refilling, getting that salt number, and then recalibrating my hayward to that salt ppm.

Anyway, back to the stain. pH should be below 7.2 now, so hopefully the asorbic acid will work now!

 

[Texas Splash]

"14", I see a few basic concerns to address before you go much further:
1 - You MUST obtain a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. Anything you do chemically is wasted time (and money) if you don't have accurate/reliable tests. We see this all the time.
2 - Why are you pulling the pH and TA down? There is probably no relation to the pH and TA to your staining.
3 - Since the spot test of AA on an area showed no improvement, the staining may be organic related since your FC level has been too low.
4 - Your FC is at zero - never a good thing. This could be yet another indication of the wide-spread staining....organic. Or organic mixed with scale.

While well water typically adds iron to the water, it's odd the AA did nothing. You can try placing some in a thin sock or nylon to do another spot test to be sure. If it still doesn't work, I would test for organic staining by rubbing a chlorine tablet on an area, or pouring a small amount of cal-hypo in a spot. If none of those show any change, then you may have something else, or a combination of issues, contributing to the wide-spread discoloration you are experiencing.

 

[Riverhog14]

"14", I see a few basic concerns to address before you go much further:
1 - You MUST obtain a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit. Anything you do chemically is wasted time (and money) if you don't have accurate/reliable tests. We see this all the time.
2 - Why are you pulling the pH and TA down? There is probably no relation to the pH and TA to your staining.
3 - Since the spot test of AA on an area showed no improvement, the staining may be organic related since your FC level has been too low.
4 - Your FC is at zero - never a good thing. This could be yet another indication of the wide-spread staining....organic. Or organic mixed with scale.

While well water typically adds iron to the water, it's odd the AA did nothing. You can try placing some in a thin sock or nylon to do another spot test to be sure. If it still doesn't work, I would test for organic staining by rubbing a chlorine tablet on an area, or pouring a small amount of cal-hypo in a spot. If none of those show any change, then you may have something else, or a combination of issues, contributing to the wide-spread discoloration you are experiencing.

I dropped the chlorine to 0, and am getting the pH to below 7.2, because those are the first 2 steps in the asorbic acid treatment, as I read from ajw22's post. And OK maybe Ill just grab those test kit's.... Always relied on my pool store but maybes its time I just test it all myself

 

[Riverhog14]

Alright well this "Suncoast Stain ID Kit" from Jack's Magic seems to havce done the trick. The red "Stop Stains" pouch pulled it right off, very obvious and clear. The kit came with 3 test packets. The Instructions say this will help with "Copper
Stains". IT worked great and I dodn;t suspect it was copper- being as my home has all PVC up to the hose bibb I fill the pool up with. Maybe natrually occurring in the well? OR maybe the well pipe itself is copper? I'm not sure. I'm just concerned with using this product because I don't know what it is. I don't want to "Acid Wash" my pool as I have heard it will dramatically reduce my gunite's life span. Is this stuff considered and Acid Wash???

 

[ajw22]

The red pouch is probably sulfamic acid.

Using sulamic acid in your pool does not have the same effect as an acid wash with 31% muriatic acid. Sulfamic acid is a milder acid. But it does have other side effects to your pool chemistry as described in the wiki below.

Do you have a heater on your pool?

Acid - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Copper in Pool Water - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Riverhog14]

No heater

 

[Texas Splash]

We know you have an SWG for chlorination, but have any pool store products been used in the past? Any algicides or items that have "Blue" in the title? Those copper-based products build up quickly.

 

[Riverhog14]

We know you have an SWG for chlorination, but have any pool store products been used in the past? Any algicides or items that have "Blue" in the title? Those copper-based products build up quickly.

I was just reading about the pool shock's with "blue" and "plus". I have used the Clorox Pool and Spa "Shock Plus" over the past 3 years, just sparingly in summer time, after heavy use of the pool. I suspect this is where my copper came from!

 

[Riverhog14]

10:00 PM Update - STAINS GONE!!!

I added 15 pounds of "Suncoast Chemicals Co. Stop Stains Stain Remover" (which I suspect is the same chemical makeup as "Jack's Magic The Copper and Scale Stuff"), plus 2 Quarts of Suncoast Chemicals Co. "Ultimate Metal Control for Copper and More" sequestrant. I began treatment @ about 3:00 PM and by 10 the pool surfaces are crystal clear! I'm amazed how well and quickly the product worked. From what I understand the chemicals are even still working, and I will continue to rinse my filter often. I'm leaving my pump running overnight for a straight 24 hours. Check out the difference! The results are amazing!



I know its kind of hard to see at night time but I just had to show how well this stuff worked. Ill take come more pics tomorrow in the daylight if I have a chance before work.

 

[ajw22]

Don’t be surprised if your FC and CCs are out of wack for a few weeks due to the sulfamic acid.

 

[Riverhog14]

Yea I just ordered the TF-Pro Salt with Smart Stir kit. Do I need to wait a few days before bringing everything back up? Don't forget I am going to need to drain about 1/3 of my pool and re-fill first, to get my salt down from 5000 to around 3000, if the pinch-a-penny pool store test was even right to begin with....

 

[ajw22]

Yea I just ordered the TF-Pro Salt with Smart Stir kit. Do I need to wait a few days before bringing everything back up?

You can adjust your water up to normal levels as soon as you get your test kit.

Add 1/2 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine in daily until you get your test kit.

Don't forget I am going to need to drain about 1/3 of my pool and re-fill first, to get my salt down from 5000 to around 3000, if the pinch-a-penny pool store test was even right to begin with....

Wait on the drain until you get your test kit and can do your own salt test.

When you get your test kit post the results here and we can discuss your next steps.

 

[Riverhog14]

Couple photo's now that its day time, pool has never looked better!! There still a BARELY visible bit of light staining on the lower part of the wall on the deep end... where it was the worst overall I believe to begin with. Its barely visible, won't even show up in a photograph, but I know its there lol... I would say the staining is about 95% removed. I am very pleased. The pool looks better now than the day we bought our home. Thank yall for your help!

Now to get the water right

-Calvin

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks great. Just remember that all that metal (copper) is still in the water (suspended) and can react at any time back to the pool surfaces. Carefully monitor your pH and FC to ensure they don't get too high might help. For peace of mind later, exchanging some water should help to lower the copper content. No urgent rush right now, just be aware.

 

[Riverhog14]

Looks great. Just remember that all that metal (copper) is still in the water (suspended) and can react at any time back to the pool surfaces. Carefully monitor your pH and FC to ensure they don't get too high might help. For peace of mind later, exchanging some water should help to lower the copper content. No urgent rush right now, just be aware.

So after reading around online, and since I'm pretty sure the copper came from the pool shock "plus" I had been using over past few years, to prevent the stains from showing their ugly face in the future (since the copper is still in pool), and to avoid having to use a metal sequestrant in the future moving forward....

I decided to just drain and re-fill my pool. This will rid it of the copper and I can start fresh with proper salt and other levels. I have been very skeptical over the hydrostatic pressure issues others have dealt with when emptying their pools, however, where I live in Central Florida its very sandy soil, we haven't had much rain hardly, and when my neighbor got his pool re-surfaced recently, they drained his all the way out and it wasn't a problem. I also called a local pool installation and refurbishing company, and discussed exactly where I live in central FL, and he agreed there won't be a problem. So I'm in the process of draining now, I'm going to shut pump off and give it a break here shortly and pick back up in the AM, but I'm about 3/4 drained out.

I'm just going to start fresh with fresh water, so I will need to add the PROPPER amount of salt, maybe start it out with some liquid chlorine, and see where my natural PH lies. My test kit came in yesterday, so I will be able to test my results as soon as a I fill the pool. I would appreciate other's guidance throughout this process.