Pool Stains

[ajw22]

Also, I just plugged my info into Pool Math, and to get my pool to 3000 PPM of salt, it’s telling me 402 pounds of salt??? Does that sound right??? My pool is actually 16000 gallons not 17,000 BTW. I just punched "3000" into the target side and 0 into the current... unless maybe my natrual well water has SOME salt?? doubt it. Maybe I should wait til I fill the pool and test it with my new test kit first

Yes, 10 40lb bags of salt is about right. Maybe $100-$150 of salt.

There will not be any salt in your tap water.

 

[Riverhog14]

The trim ring is decorative and not there to provide any waterproofing. That is why I have been recommending you remove the eyeball seat and trim ring which will expose the raw pipe through the plaster. Then you can see about packing around the pipe with new plaster.

I think trying to pack plaster around the trim ring will not hold for long. You can try it but it will likely create a mess in the area that will make the trim ring more difficult to remove.

It really depends if you want to try a temporary fix or get to the root and do it right.

What @AQUA~HOLICS recommended was the direction I had been thinking.

You may want to talk with some builders and plaster companies in your are and see if someone is available. It should be a day or two of work to fix it right.

That white ring visible on the outside is not just a trim ring…. It appears to be a solid PVC fitting which runs all the way to the PVC pipe and all the way in to the pool surface, with threads inside, for whatever accessorie to screw into (pool return jet, pool vaccum port, pool light, etc). It appears this piece is how all return jets, the pool vacuum port; and even my old fiber optic poop light “connect” to the pool. They are plastered in, there’s no removing them, they aren’t just trim.

Also, after further inspection (now that I can get down and look at these things) the previous owner apparently tried to fix the pool vacuum line with pool putty…. Clearly not going to work. This will be a great spot for a Franken Plug, if they make one with a large enough interior diameter to not strain my pump too much however still get good performance from my pool vacuum.

ALSO- the old fiber optic light has some water in it. I tried to unscrew it to investigate further and it became VERY brittle. I will probably end up removing it and replacing with LED at some point, however for now, if it’s a bad leak, I’ll probably just remove it and cap it like I’ve done the pool vaccum port for now.

Water is filling up as we speak, I picked up liquid chlorine; 10 bags of salt, and some muratic acid at Lowes.

Test kit came in, whew this is gunna take some education to figure out!!

 

[Texas Splash]

Test kit came in, whew this is gunna take some education to figure out!!

Great! Piece of cake, but if you have any questions let us know.

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

TF100TestKit

The TF-100 sets the standard for excellence in Pool Testing Kits. It contains 7 separate tests to give you accurate readings on each important pool water parameter.

www.youtube.com

 

[Riverhog14]

Pool is almost full, I'm going to go ahead and try out this new test kit. I've got the TF Pro Salt w/ Smart Stir. I'm going to need some help with this! Should I move over to the pool water chemistry section or can some of yall lend me a hand on this current thread?

 

[Texas Splash]

First, be sure to let the pool water mix really well for a while before testing for potential adjustments. But if you want to grab a sample now just for practice, of course that's fine. You can return here with those results if you like. If we feel like it's confusing later with your plumbing issue we can always separate it later.

 

[Riverhog14]

Alrite guys, sorry for the delay, I'm a police officer, and I worked the weekend and I had a VERY busy weekend....

BTW, Awesome super bowl game!!!!!

CL - 0 (obviously)
PH - 8.2 (or higher, I think, it was even darker than the 8.2)
Calcium Hardness - 250
Total Alkanity - 100
CYA - Either inconclusive or 0.... I'm assuming 0.

I didn't test salt because obviously there's none in there. Also, keep in mind, this was my very first time using the TF Pro and let me tell you, IT WAS AWESOME!!! At this point in time my fresh water has been sitting with nothing in it for going on 3 days now, I have to go out of town tomorrow, I need to get this stuff in the pool before I go, so I'm going to plug these numbers into Pool Math and see what it comes up with.

FC - recommended adding 102 oz 10% to get to a goal of 5... I'm ASSUMING 5 is a good number?? I've read before you can get away with 3 in a salt pool, but that makes no sense to me, so I just went with 5. Instead of 102 oz, I just went ahead and did a whole gallon (128 oz).
PH - to get to 7.5, recommended 27oz of 31.45% muratic acid. Since I think my PH was well above 8.2 (it was very red) I just went with an even 30 oz.
Total Alkalinity was good @ 100 (lucky I guess)
CYA - called for 90 oz (by volume) of stabilizer. One full 4 lb bag was 75 oz (by volume) so then added another 15 more for a total of 90 oz by volume. Only thing I think I screwed up was I didn't put it in a sock, I've never done that but read you should. But that was a lot, it woulda taken a BIG Rear SOCK!!
Salt- to get to 3000, obviously I didn't test, it called for 402 pounds, so that's (10) 40 lb bags - I went ahead and put in 8 of the 10 in, so that would be 320 pounds of salt. Pretty sure my water level just went up after all of that . This way, I can let everything mix around, and I can test my salt for the first time, and see where its at.

So what yall think?? Did I do OK for a first timer or did I totally wreck my pool??? lol
@Texas Splash
@ajw22
-Calvin

 

[PoolStored]

FC - recommended adding 102 oz 10% to get to a goal of 5... I'm ASSUMING 5 is a good number?? I've read before you can get away with 3 in a salt pool, but that makes no sense to me, so I just went with 5. Instead of 102 oz, I just went ahead and did a whole gallon (128 oz).

Thank you for your service. Congrats on the testing!!!! That would be fine. Read this-->FC/CYA Levels

PH - to get to 7.5, recommended 27oz of 31.45% muratic acid. Since I think my PH was well above 8.2 (it was very red) I just went with an even 30 oz.

Lower your pH in .4 increments until you get to ~7.4. Pool math can be off with changes to pH outside the parameters listed (see the effects of adding and pH adjustment notes in Pool Math). Use Muriatic Acid.

Total Alkalinity was good @ 100 (lucky I guess)

Great.

CYA - called for 90 oz (by volume) of stabilizer. One full 4 lb bag was 75 oz (by volume) so then added another 15 more for a total of 90 oz by volume. Only thing I think I screwed up was I didn't put it in a sock, I've never done that but read you should. But that was a lot, it woulda taken a BIG Rear SOCK!!

Yeah, you will end up about 40CYA. ALWAYS use a sock, either hung in front of return (best) or in the skimmer. Did you dump it in the skimmer, or dump in the pool?

Salt- to get to 3000, obviously I didn't test, it called for 402 pounds, so that's (10) 40 lb bags - I went ahead and put in 8 of the 10 in, so that would be 320 pounds of salt. Pretty sure my water level just went up after all of that . This way, I can let everything mix around, and I can test my salt for the first time, and see where its at.

Did you test salt before you added it? Many pool have high levels of salt because pucks, liquid chlorine and muriatic acid add salt. Always TEST salt before adding salt. Either way, TURN OFF YOUR SWCG when you are adding that much salt! Turn it off now!

 

[ajw22]

You did fine.

How did you add the CYA?

When you get back from your trip run your tests and see where things are.

 

[Riverhog14]

@PoolStored No I did not test salt, because I was adding all of this at once. My SWG has been off since I started messing around with the stains and I have kept it off since refilling because there hasnt been any salt mixed in.... My SWG is still off until the salt disolves and mixes throughout the water. I also want to learn how and where to set the % rate at. Once I get back home Ill check salt, if my gallons estimate on my pool is correct it should be at 2400, then Ill test it, and see if it needs the other 2 bags to get to 3000.

@ajw22 I just dumped it in the pool :-/ I won't clean my filter for a few days and let it dissolve into the water. I have a feeling I screwed up by doing that. I just don't want to rinse it out of the filter when I go to clean it, so the filter can go a week or so, so I don't wash it out. That should be fine.

 

[ajw22]

@ajw22 I just dumped it in the pool :-/ I won't clean my filter for a few days and let it dissolve into the water. I have a feeling I screwed up by doing that. I just don't want to rinse it out of the filter when I go to clean it, so the filter can go a week or so, so I don't wash it out. That should be fine.

As much as you can brush the CYA that you can see on the pool floor around to help it dissolve.

CYA is a mild acid and can stain the pool floor. As much as you can help it dissolve and not let it sit in one place.

 

[Riverhog14]

As much as you can brush the CYA that you can see on the pool floor around to help it dissolve.

CYA is a mild acid and can stain the pool floor. As much as you can help it dissolve and not let it sit in one place

OOH DANG!!!! Will it leave an obvious stain???? I would run my pool-vac but theres 320 pounds of clumped up salt down there too!

 

[ajw22]

OOH DANG!!!! Will it leave an obvious stain????

Depends what color your plaster is and how mottled your plaster is.

I would run my pool-vac but theres 320 pounds of clumped up salt down there too!

Brush, brush, brush what is on the floor.

 

[Riverhog14]

Just got back home, heading out to work now, but unfortunately- I STILL HAVE A LEAK!

In under 48 hours, I lost 1.5 inches of water. Measured from a little mark in the skimmer basket and its down 1.5 inches....

SO FRUSTRATING!

I'll re-check all my water chemistry later on this evening or this weekend....

I have GOT to find this leak!!!

Now I'm going to have to keep adding water which is going to throw all of my pool chemistry off, even if its only an inch here and an inch there because its not evaporating, its leaking, and taking all my chemicals with it.....

 

[Texas Splash]

I STILL HAVE A LEAK!

Maybe I missed it above, but what exactly did you do for the suspected leak earlier? Did you only install a plug/cap or two? If that's all you did, keep this in mind. Much like my leak scenario, the break was inside the PVC going into the wall (shell), up behind the threads. A plug/cap may not stop a leak like that because it doesn't go deep enough into the wall and water from behind (the plumbing) can still get to it. That's why in my case, the Frankenplug worked because it extends into and through the wall (shell) about 4 inches to isolate that area - like a new (return) tunnel.

Something to think about anyway unless I missed something else in your descriptions above.

 

[Riverhog14]

@Texas Splash

I put some Pool Putty around that one jet that looked wet in comparison to the others... However, after further investigation, I THINK I FOUND IT!! Texas Splash, when you told me about your Franken Plug, I thought, well that makes no sense, cause if the port is plugged and the gunite is sealed, then where could it leak?? But I went back to my pool vacuum port and messed around with some die - check out this video. LEAK FOUND!!

So what I have learned is, the plaster itself is NOT water proof???? Its porous??? Its only the Shot Crete BEHIND the plaster that is water proof??? This is some interesting stuff, I did not know that. Makes since why Pool Putty won't fix it.

I'm going to Franken Plug this leak, because I showed the photos before where someone tried to fix the vacuum line cracked at the junction to the PVC port with pool putty. So I will Franken Plug it and that should solve it, I would think. Would I need to maybe dab a little pool putty in that spot where the die goes too? Its hard to understand because I really didn't understand how the plaster seems to be porous and not waterproof.

Also, the interior diameter of a franken plug is much smaller than the pipe itself, so I would assume it would probably cause too much resistance in the line for my pool vacuum to work properly through the vacuum port. No worries, I'll just run it through my skimmer line if that's the case. Anyone used a franken-plug in a pool vacuum port before??

Vacuum Port Dye Test Video

 

[Texas Splash]

Yes, the exterior plaster surface is designed to be water-tight. If you elect to try the Frankenplug, it is true the plug opening (tunnel length) is a smaller diameter than the original return line, but it shouldn't be disruptive to your overall system. Hope it helps to stop any water loss. Let us know how it goes. Have a nice weekend.

 

[Riverhog14]

Frankenplug ordered.

Here is my pool chemistry as of now:
CL - 5 (FC - 5 / CC - 0)
PH - 8.2
CH - 200
TA - 130
CYA - 40
Salt - first test was 4,200, didn't seem right, so did it again real carefully and it was still high at 3,800....

so my PH is still way too high, and I just don't understand the salt. I added (8) 40 pound bags. That should have brought it to 2400, not around 4,000!!! What the heck....

So my TA is very high, and according to pool math it says to drop my PH to 7.0 or 7.2 to lower TA, and then I can "aerate" (I do have a waterfall) to bring the pH back up. Well I wonder by dropping my pH to that low, how MUCH is it going to lower my TA??? 10? 100?? Doesn't really explain...... But whatever, I'll try it, so I punched in 7.0 for my taget pH and its calling for 85 oz muriatic acid.

Its also calling for 474 oz (30 pounds) of calcium chloride to get it from 200 to 400.... is this really necessary? Where / what is the best stuff to buy??

Its also calling for 75 oz more of stabilizer to bring my CYA from 40 to 75, but I'm not going to mess with that yet because I think some is still dissolving.... I'll re-test in a few days or so and see what I need then.

Main thing throwing me off is the salt..... what the heck??

Here is what the salt test looked like when I stopped counting drops. This is right when the whole sample color changed. Now AS I was dropping the drops, when the drops themselves hit the solution, they briefly turned "milky brick red", but that was just the drops and as soon as I swirled, that color dissipated.

I tried the Salt Test Strips as well, and it also showed around 4,000 (although it was hard to read and clearly not super accurate).

Only thing I can think of is, my gallons estimate is way off......

 

[PoolStored]

so my PH is still way too high, and I just don't understand the salt. I added (8) 40 pound bags. That should have brought it to 2400, not around 4,000!!! What the heck....

Get. A. SpeedStir, today. It will change your testing game and you will get super accurate. Without it, salt test is hard.

So my TA is very high, and according to pool math it says to drop my PH to 7.0 or 7.2 to lower TA, and then I can "aerate" (I do have a waterfall) to bring the pH back up. Well I wonder by dropping my pH to that low, how MUCH is it going to lower my TA??? 10? 100?? Doesn't really explain...... But whatever, I'll try it, so I punched in 7.0 for my taget pH and its calling for 85 oz muriatic acid.

I can reduce my TA by 10 in 12 hours. Lower pH to 7.0, aerate to pH 7.4, drop it to 7.0 again, rinse repeat. You don't HAVE to do it this way, but CO2 outgasses at the highest rate between 7.0 and 7.4.

You want LOTS of very tiny bubbles...here is my rig that I built on top of a sump pump:

Aerator.jpg

• PoolStored
• Sep 11, 2022
• 2

Its also calling for 474 oz (30 pounds) of calcium chloride to get it from 200 to 400.... is this really necessary? Where / what is the best stuff to buy??

Add enough to get it to 250 and you should be fine. What is the CH of your fill water? Do you get lots of rain? Get dowflake, or snow joe. You just want one that is high purity. This is one chemical I buy from the pool store. It might be 5$ more, but they tend to sell the pure stuff.

Its also calling for 75 oz more of stabilizer to bring my CYA from 40 to 75, but I'm not going to mess with that yet because I think its some it still in dissolving.... I'll re-test in a few days or so and see what I need then.

Good Choice. Ask me how I know. It is also OK to creep up on your target by adding in 10 increments, just allow 48 hrs circulating before retest.

Only thing I can think of is, my gallons estimate is way off......

Did you test your salt levels before you added salt? Liquid Chlorine and muriatic acid add salt to your pool. If you were at 1600 before your add, you could easily be 4000.
Do your other chemical additions get you the results you are expecting? If so, your pool size is not off.

 

[ajw22]

A TA of 130 does not require immediate action. With all the other chemistry changes you are trying to make leave your TA alone. Lower your pH to 7.6-7.8.

Once you get everything else stabilized then you can work on lowering your TA.

 

[Riverhog14]

I dunno about this 16,000 gallons!! When we first bought our home a few years ago, I went to a local pool store (pinch a penny) to kind of get started. I brought in a water sample and they asked for my address. I gave it to them, and they were the ones that had serviced the pool for the previous owners, so they told me the pool was 15,900 gallons.

But I just used the calculator on PoolMath, and a 13' wide pool by 24' long, with an average depth of 5 feet (just over 3' on shallow end and 6' on deep end) is 10,300 gallons!!!! Not 16,000!!! Here's a pic of my pool, is there any way this thing is 16,000 gallons???



I played around with the numbers on PoolMath, and to go from 0 salt to 4,000 ppm (estimate of where I'm at right now, one test @ 4,200 and the other at 3,800, split the difference @ 4,000), I would need to add 321 pounds (I added (8) 40 pound bags - so 320 lb) for a 9.600 gallon pool. I'm so glad this high salt number got me thinking about gallons being off, I busted out a tape measure, and there just isn't any way this thing is 16,000 gallons like pinch a penny said they had in their system. I never measured it before for myself, I just went off of what I was told. This thing is sitting closer to around 10,000 gallons...