Pool Light - No transformer?

[Household6]

This video shows one of the best ways it works under water - very short simple video. The light housing with glass lens he removes is sealed and the electrical connection coming into the housing is sealed. Near the end of the video he goes back underwater and shows where the conduit connects to the niche. You can see that is not sealed. The electrical wiring from the light travels through that conduit all the way back to the above ground junction box. You can see it is not sealed and would also have water in it.

This is why any splice you made would have water on it and not be safe or protected. The only splice should be at the end of that conduit above ground in a sealed box.

If the niche in your pool is good, you need a new sealed light housing with a cord/wire long enough to be fished all the way back to where that conduit comes out of the ground.

There’s my confusion. Ours IS sealed with epoxy or putty of some sort. Why would one NOT seal the back of the niche where the wiring pulls through? Seems an added safety measure to me. No?

Pool is currently empty as we just finished painting it yesterday and waiting for paint to cure before refill. But now that I’m thinking about it, we noticed a line going down the wall from the niche a couple days after we drained it. Looked like where water had gone down. Didn’t think much of it. But now I know where it was coming from - leaking through the putty. So this answers the question of whether or not there’s conduit ran all the way. Wouldn’t have leaked 2 days later if there wasn’t.

 

[Household6]

So I looked through INYO’s light options and found what we need.
I was going to go with a 300w, 12v light (and transformer). But lady I spoke with suggested that wouldn’t be bright enough for our 20x40 size. She suggests 500w. And evidently that isn’t offered in a 12v version (only 120v).

Any opinions on 300 versus 500watt? Not looking to light up a circus, but would like to be able to see bottom of pool.

Should I look for 500watt on 12 volt somewhere else?

 

[avspin]

Any particular reason you elected not to plug it?

When I changed the light last year it was not plugged. I figured it has been like this since 2002 so I left it the same.

 

[GDN]

There’s my confusion. Ours IS sealed with epoxy or putty of some sort. Why would one NOT seal the back of the niche where the wiring pulls through? Seems an added safety measure to me. No?

Pool is currently empty as we just finished painting it yesterday and waiting for paint to cure before refill. But now that I’m thinking about it, we noticed a line going down the wall from the niche a couple days after we drained it. Looked like where water had gone down. Didn’t think much of it. But now I know where it was coming from - leaking through the putty. So this answers the question of whether or not there’s conduit ran all the way. Wouldn’t have leaked 2 days later if there wasn’t.

Herein lies your problem regardless of what you find - your sealed light housing has been cut from the wire on the pool side of that seal. There is no way to safely patch that. You need a new sealed light housing with factory sealed cord pulled back through the conduit.

You've also noted, that regardless of wheter it looks like it was sealed or not, you've noted water is in there and it leaked through and down the pool wall. It may be a pain, but do yourself your swimmers a favor and replace it correctly.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Theres no need to seal the conduit in a wet niche. Its supposed to be wet and filled with pool water. The only epoxy potting compound is to protect the seperate ground wire at its terminal inside the niche from pool chemicals. You NEVER splice a pool light. You will kill someone. Seriously. Yiu have to order a fixture with enough cord to get to the first Jbox. Start putting watered down dish soap down the conduit and after it makes it's way down to the niche the cord will pull right out. They are only plugged when leaking or by elevteiciams that dont understand pools. For a 20x40 you need a big 120v light. Find what niche you have amd order the proper luminaire. The light MUST be on a gfci dedicated circuit thats tested otherwise its NOT safe to use it

 

[Household6]

Theres no need to seal the conduit in a wet niche. Its supposed to be wet and filled with pool water. The only epoxy potting compound is to protect the seperate ground wire at its terminal inside the niche from pool chemicals. You NEVER splice a pool light. You will kill someone. Seriously. Yiu have to order a fixture with enough cord to get to the first Jbox. Start putting watered down dish soap down the conduit and after it makes it's way down to the niche the cord will pull right out. They are only plugged when leaking or by elevteiciams that dont understand pools. For a 20x40 you need a big 120v light. Find what niche you have amd order the proper luminaire. The light MUST be on a gfci dedicated circuit thats tested otherwise its NOT safe to use it

Not going to splice. Breaker is gfi and only thing on it is this light.
Have found what light we need and ordering today, trying to decide 500 watt versus 400 watt. (Pentair Pool Amerlite 500W 50' Cord 120V - 78458100 - INYOPools.com)

The electrician is not experienced with pools (I called no less than 8 electricians Friday and couldn’t find any who were! Called 2 pool builders and their electricians are in-house.)

I knew the lights get hot and water prevents them from overheating, but it never occurred to me how the water gets into the niche (duh!).

Appears to me the ring that holds the fixture into the niche isn’t tight. But any reason to pour water into the niche before the ring is installed?

I’m in the home stretch of this. Thank you, to all, for bearing with me through all my questions!

 

[Household6]

Herein lies your problem regardless of what you find - your sealed light housing has been cut from the wire on the pool side of that seal. There is no way to safely patch that. You need a new sealed light housing with factory sealed cord pulled back through the conduit.

You've also noted, that regardless of wheter it looks like it was sealed or not, you've noted water is in there and it leaked through and down the pool wall. It may be a pain, but do yourself your swimmers a favor and replace it correctly.

I am. Just trying to figure out what “correctly” is.
Can’t locate a pool electrician near me. SO glad I have this forum to answer my layman questions and ensure things are done properly!
Ordering the light today. Having installed on Thursday.

 

[jimmythegreek]

No need to add water it works naturally. You want to inspect the niche while light is out. Either get in pool and see what's going in with the ground wire inside or use a mirror from above. They actually make a mirror with a telescoping handle for this purpose. If you have a bond plate in the niche make sure its not corroded and the ground is there amd secure. On older metal niche they used the actual metal as the bond. See what's in there and report back.

 

[Household6]

No need to add water it works naturally. You want to inspect the niche while light is out. Either get in pool and see what's going in with the ground wire inside or use a mirror from above. They actually make a mirror with a telescoping handle for this purpose. If you have a bond plate in the niche make sure its not corroded and the ground is there amd secure. On older metal niche they used the actual metal as the bond. See what's in there and report back.

When I ordered the light I went ahead and got these items too, JIC:

light repair wedge -

Pool Tool Company Pool Tool Repair Light Wedge- 132 - INYOPools.com

132 - WEDGE, REPAIR LIGHT (132)

www.inyopools.com

Cord stopper -

G&P Tools LLC Cord Stopper 2 Hole Retro F/niche W/bonding Grnd - Q-CS9 - INYOPools.com

Q-CS9 - CORD STOPPER 2 HOLE RETRO F/NICHE W/BONDING GRND

www.inyopools.com

 

[jimmythegreek]

I would order a 3M potting compound kit. That wire to the terminal is supposed to be protected from water. Chances are the conduit leaks and they plugged it or it had a leak on pool amd they plugged to rule that out. When u pull the ord it's not gonna be easy to leave the ground wire there most likely it will come out amd get re pulled with new cord

 

[Household6]

I would order a 3M potting compound kit. That wire to the terminal is supposed to be protected from water. Chances are the conduit leaks and they plugged it or it had a leak on pool amd they plugged to rule that out. When u pull the ord it's not gonna be easy to leave the ground wire there most likely it will come out amd get re pulled with new cord

Do you mean the black ground wire that’s attached to the screw should be protected from water?

Will there not be a ground wire included with the new light? (the one that I didn’t receive today ?). I mean, who wouldn’t need a ground wire installing a new light?

 

[avspin]

The pool light wire contains 3 wires (black, white, green) The black is the line, white common and green ground. The ground in the light wire grounds the light itself. There should also be a separate ground wire that grounds the light niche that usually runs in the conduit grounding the niche, conduit and/or junction box. Where it attaches in the niche, it runs through the niche to the backside where it connects to the bonding wire, which bonds the water. In a perfect world.

 

[Household6]

The pool light wire contains 3 wires (black, white, green) The black is the line, white common and green ground. The ground in the light wire grounds the light itself. There should also be a separate ground wire that grounds the light niche that usually runs in the conduit grounding the niche, conduit and/or junction box. Where it attaches in the niche, it runs through the niche to the backside where it connects to the bonding wire, which bonds the water. In a perfect world.

Looking at the photo in comment 29, isn’t the separate smaller black wire on the left that’s attached to the screw in the niche the black grounding wire for the niche?

 

[mguzzy]

I just read through your thread.. Yeah.. @jimmythegreek to the rescue! I assume you found the J-box? I recommend you pull out the grounding wire when you pull the old cord and then pull it back through with the new light cord. That way it the line that is left in doesn't rub on the other line. Yes the black wire is the grounding wire.

Your setup is similar to mine. I have sport court lights that use the pool's control box as a sub panel. Each set of lights were on their own GFI breaker.. partly because the sport court lights were 220v and the pool lights were 120v. Anyway both the pool lights and sport court lights were out and I decided to redo the whole mess. I replaced the sport court lights with 120v LED floods (I love 'em), replaced the 220v breaker with a 120v breaker and put the circuit on a timer switch. That way the kids can't leave them on ... (I hated waking up at 1a in the morning and find them still on). AND I found the GFCI the pool lights were on was semi-dead.. it would not hold load of the 500W lights. so I replaced that. Luckily, the light enclosures just needed new gaskets and once I put new halogen bulbs in it all worked. But, I fear one of the enclosures is flaky enough that I'll have to pull a new light. at that point I'll switch to an LED. So why am I rambling on so.. on the off chance it gives you some ideas.

 

[avspin]

Looking at the photo in comment 29, isn’t the separate smaller black wire on the left that’s attached to the screw in the niche the black grounding wire for the niche?

Yes as mguzzy said, the black, should or could have been green is the ground. Do you see where it's connected in the junction box?
I was able to pull my wire through with the ground still in the conduit. use dish washing soap down the conduit and it should go pretty easy. Two people, one feed the other pull.

 

[ajw22]

A light bonding wire is black, not green. Bonding and grounding are two different things for different purposes. The green ground wire for the light will be within the jacket with the other two power wires.

 

[avspin]

A light bonding wire is black, not green. Bonding and grounding are two different things for different purposes. The green ground wire for the light will be within the jacket with the other two power wires.

But the bond wire should be behind the niche canister attached to the bonding lug.

 

[jimmythegreek]

The bond wire is behind the niche if it's even there. Yiu would know if it was if its attached to the Jbox where light cord terminates. What I'm saying is there is a second ground not bond wire and that is what you see in the niche. Code stipulates that wire must be insulated stranded wire of not less than 10guage and it is to be covered with potting compound fo protect the terminal from water chemicals. Some inspectors want 8 guage depends who they are. I go thru this all the time. Look up Moke Holts pool wiring guide it tells you everything you need to know in a pdf file it's the bible

 

[ajw22]

Look up Moke Holts pool wiring guide it tells you everything you need to know in a pdf file it's the bible

https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor2/img/product/pdf/17UND2-1483-sample.pdf

I gotta remember about the second ground wire.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Thanks for the link Allen