Pool Heat Pump Leaking Freon

[Kingmiwok]

I have a 9 year old Hayward SUM8TA 140k BTU pool heat pump that is leaking freon. The tech who was recharging it spotted the leak. The titanium part of the heat exchanger is still under warranty, but nothing else. No labor warranty. Charging the unit is about $500, and last time it lasted about 6 months. The leaking part (the entire heat exchanger) is about $2k and I'd estimate about $1k for labor/recharge. All-in for replacing the entire heat pump is about $10k.

I'm trying to determine if the leak is repairable, or if the component that is leaking is the titanium coil. The leak is near the interface where the refrigerant coil exits the water jacket. It may be where the titanium part transitions to copper. See the video link for a short video of the leak the tech made. The photo shows the location of the leak, but that's not my photo or heat pump, just one I found on the internet. (The heat pump is in Hawaii and I'm currently off island, so I have not seen the leak first hand.)









Has anyone had a leak like this before? Can it be repaired without replacing the entire $2k heat exchanger? I'm not sure it makes sense to put $3k into a 9 yo heat pump, but I did not plan on spending $10k to replace it either. Recharging it every 6 months perhaps makes more sense, but ethically I don't like the idea of continually dumping freon into the atmosphere.

video of leak

$2k replacement part SMX24024864

SMX24024864 - Heat Exchanger for HP21404T and SUMXL112 - 318 Inches - Hayward

This is a Hayward Replacement Heat Exchanger for HP21404T Pool Pumps and Summit XL SUMXL112, 318 Inches.

www.poolweb.com

On newer versions of this part, it looks like they changed that fitting/location somewhat, perhaps because of failures like this.

Thanks for anything you can share.
Glen

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’m confused - what’s under warranty? Shouldn’t the warranty cover the full replacement heat exchanger (the $2,000 part) and then you need to cover the labor and recharge?

 

[Kingmiwok]

Yes, I think it does, if the titanium part is the cause of the failure. (i.e. If the titanium component of the heat exchanger fails, they'll replace the entire heat exchanger ($2k). But if for example the PVC component of the heat exchanger fails, then it's not covered by warranty.) What's not clear to me in this case is if this leak is in the titanium part, or a copper part. I think it might be where it transitions between the copper and titanium. I don't know. Hoping someone who knows this part will chime in. (edit clarity)

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I don’t think there’s been many threads on the heat exchangers failing. I can only think of one where somebody had a leaking heat exchanger and the technician tried to use epoxy on the spot but it didn’t work out and eventually failed again.

Any transition from titanium to copper is going to be tricky. There’s no welding process that can link the two metals because they are so dissimilar. There are some advanced brazing processes that are used but that’s usually for high end application (like aerospace). There are compression couplers that use essentially a glue and a compression collar to link a titanium pipe to a copper pipe so that’s what may have been used there in the original design. That particular transition in the coolant system is going to be the place where there is the most thermal cycling from cold to hot so I would suspect it’s always going to be the weakest link in the design.

In general, when expensive components go bad on a heater, it’s almost always advisable to just go with a new heater. Repairing old ones is expensive and rarely gets you more than another season of use before something else breaks. If the warranty covers the entire replacement part, then sinking $1000 into a repair might work out. But if it’s $3k … I’d say go new.

 

[Kingmiwok]

I don’t think there’s been many threads on the heat exchangers failing. I can only think of one where somebody had a leaking heat exchanger and the technician tried to use epoxy on the spot but it didn’t work out and eventually failed again.

Any transition from titanium to copper is going to be tricky. There’s no welding process that can link the two metals because they are so dissimilar. There are some advanced brazing processes that are used but that’s usually for high end application (like aerospace). There are compression couplers that use essentially a glue and a compression collar to link a titanium pipe to a copper pipe so that’s what may have been used there in the original design. That particular transition in the coolant system is going to be the place where there is the most thermal cycling from cold to hot so I would suspect it’s always going to be the weakest link in the design.

In general, when expensive components go bad on a heater, it’s almost always advisable to just go with a new heater. Repairing old ones is expensive and rarely gets you more than another season of use before something else breaks. If the warranty covers the entire replacement part, then sinking $1000 into a repair might work out. But if it’s $3k … I’d say go new.

Thanks for the input, and the info on the copper/titanium transition. Exactly, what will be next, the compressor, or a leak somewhere else? It's hard to justify putting too much money into a 9yo unit.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Online prices on 140kBTU heat pumps appear to be in the $4k range. Raypak seems to be cheaper than Hayward. You might call around and get quotes for the installation of a new one. Considering your plumbing and electrical service is already in place, the job is pretty much just a drop-in replacement with haul away for the old unit and whatever they’d charge you for warranty. Considering the unit leaks, there’s no refrigerant for them to capture and dispose of. $9000 new seems pricey to me, but I’ve never shopped around for heat pump installations.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Oh, I see … you live Hawaii … so yeah, everything there costs 3X as much as the mainland

 

[swamprat69]

Has the heater been "recharged" multiple times? You need to realize that the electric motor that drives the compressor in the system is cooled by the cool gas returning from the evaporator. As the system loses refrigerant there will be less leftover cool gas returning (its temperature will rise) to cool the compressor motor. More so as more refrigerant is lost. This will shorten the life of the compressor (hard to quantify exactly). If recharged multiple times the damage done to the compressor may result in the early demise of a compressor that is just out of warranty (most are either 5 or 10 yrs), that will result in another very large repair bill.