Pool builder is recommending SuperPump 1.5hp (not VSP)

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,740
Automation isn't that hard to install. He can figure it out. Time for him to step into the 21st century.

The automation has the timers and the subpanel and the swg power supply.

Without automation, you have to buy and install a subpanel, timer and swg power supply.

The cost isn't that much more for automation and everything is in one box.

Also, the pump has to run continuously at higher speed in case the heat pump wants to turn on.

With automation, the pump speeds up only when the heat pump is on. This saves a lot of power.
 

Rossterman

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2016
473
Martinez, CA
PB probably has that pump sitting in his shop and wants to move it. Go VS. unless you like throwing money away. And btw, my guess is the gpm rating for that pump is way over what’s required for that equipment. I build our system, did flow calcs for the system with swc, heater, and solar on roof, and a 1hp was actually slighty More than needed.
 
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JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,740

The bigger VS pump will run slower at the same flow rate.

VS pumps get noisy above about 2,750 rpm due to the back mounted fan.

So, it's better to go with an oversized pump and run it slower for quieter operation.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
96
NY
for the automation - OmniPL Smart Pool and Spa Control with TCELL940 (Expert Line) - looks like what i would need? Am I correct that I can't purchase this myself but would need him to order it?
 

fields_g

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2014
153
Rockville, MD
Just wanted to reinforce what has already been said.... The VS is better because of economic, environmental, flexibility, usability, comfort, etc. When most people want to move to VS, they hesitate because their current pump isn't dead yet or don't want to mess with changing pool control. You don't have these legacy concerns. Build it the correct way so you never have to face conversion complications.

Also... robots work wonders compared to pressure/suction side cleaners. If a cleaner is in the design, consider removing that electrical/plumbing complication and just use a better performing robot.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
96
NY
i am sold on the VSP - i am not sold on the automation. If my system consists of a VSP, heater and SWCG - what drawbacks will i have without automation? To me it looks like automation is going to add about $2k to the price.
 

fields_g

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2014
153
Rockville, MD
My "Hayward MaxFlo VS (SP2302VSP)" doesn't have an onboard schedule. It utilizes an external mechanical timer (same I used for my single speed pump) to control on/off cycles. It does have a built in countdown timer that controls when to go from one speed to another (that's all relative to power on time). I think this style of control is not as prevalent in the VSP market since it caters to retrofits.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,740
Probably the big difference is that the pump has to run at heat pump speed continuously when you want the heat pump to operate.

With automation, the system will increase the pump speed to the necessary speed only when the heat pump is on.

Other than that, it's mostly convenience.

Without automation, you're still mounting a subpanel and a SWG power supply and a timer.

The labor involved is the same either way.
 

tstex

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2012
1,803
Houston, TX
First, make sure if you go VSP, it is the Tristar and NOT the EcoStar...If your pool builder has been dealing w the EcoStar pump, then that's why he wants to go w the Super Pump.

Next. automation is a convenience factor. It also makes it easier to operate from inside your home AND remotely, plus you get a sub-panel that can control all of your equipment w extra protection and future flexibility. Have you ever wanted something and didn't buy it, then a couple of yrs later you did and you said to yourself "I wish I would have bought this 10 yrs ago". This is what automation is like. Since you live in NY, it'd be nice to be able to turn on your spa from the restaurant when you sit down so by the time you arrive home, you and your wife can hit the spa and it's ready. Or, check on your pool remotely to see if everything is working properly, etc.

Finally, I can appreciate your pool builder wanting to keep it simple and working. However, he's not living there, paying the electric bill or managing the day to day operations, you are, and your wife. And, w automation, you can operate and enjoy your pool a lot more than the normal 6 mo's of NY weather bc you can get the ball rolling while you are remote. And, each time you use a pool, the cost of your investment goes down...if you have other pool owners/nbors w automation, see what their wives think of it vs the ones that have a super pump and have to go to the freezing panel in Nov to flip a switch...hope this helps
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
96
NY
Probably the big difference is that the pump has to run at heat pump speed continuously when you want the heat pump to operate.

With automation, the system will increase the pump speed to the necessary speed only when the heat pump is on.

Other than that, it's mostly convenience.

Without automation, you're still mounting a subpanel and a SWG power supply and a timer.

The labor involved is the same either way.
I think the only question I have is without automation what drives the heat pump? Am i just flipping a switch?

Again - i really appreciate the insights here (as I am sure it's not the first time these questions have been asked - i'll be diving into the forum "search" tonight).
 

SteveK

Bronze Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Sep 14, 2007
66
Central NJ
I think this is all stressing my wife out, she thinks I am being a pain in the butt by not just going with what the PB is recommending....
Tell your wife to relax. What she should really be stressed out about is the extra electric usage and cost that will be incurred by using that single speed pump.:(

For reference, 8 seasons ago, I replaced a 2HP single speed pump with a VS 3HP pump. I do not have a heater, but I do have a SWC generator. The pump brands were different than what is being discussed in this thread, but the comparison is nonetheless valid.

My old single-speed pump drew approximately 1400 watts and ran for 8 hours per day (while running at full speed the entire time). So power consumption was 1.4Kwatts/hour x 8hours/day = 11.2Kwatts/day. 30 days/month x $0.17/Kwatt x 11.28= $57.12 per month electric charge just for running the pool pump.

The replacement VS pump draws 252 watts running at 1400rpm for 12 hours per day. This is fast enough to run the SWC generator, 2 skimmers and turnover the pool water once per day (32K gallons). Doing the math -- 252watts x 12 hours = 3.024Kwatts/day x 30 days/month = 90.72Kwatts/month x $0.17Kwatt = $15.42 per month electric charge. That's almost $42/month savings EACH MONTH.o_O

My pool is "open" (pump running) about 5 months per season (I live in Central NJ). So that's over $200 in cost savings PER SEASON. The incremental cost of the VS pump was re-captured in less than 2 seasons -- a fantastic return on the investment.

Tell your wife she should relax and you will take her to a nice restaurant with the electric savings when you switch to the VS pump. :)
 
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jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
96
NY
is anyone running a heater with variable speed pump, SWCG and no automation? Is there anything I am not taking into consideration here when it comes to the heater operation? Is the heater just thermostatic with a flow switch, so it only turns on for desired temp while the pump is running? Or would I have to manually turn it on and off while the pump is running? This is the only thing I am confused about.
 

tstex

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2012
1,803
Houston, TX
My understanding is that in order for the heater to turn on, you need a certain amt of higher RPM's from pump. Once pump achieves this sustained RPM level, you'd have to turn on the pump manually, then turn off manually unless you run it for 4 hrs then it shuts down automatically. Once the heater is started, it should cycle itself till turned off of 4 Hr limit...
 
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jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
96
NY
from what i am reading on other threads it looks like i can have the heater on set to X temp, and it will only heat to that temp if the water is under X temp and has the proper flow rate - so I am assuming i keep the heater on and then i have the VSP rpm set to whatever the minimum flow rate the heater needs for a few hours a day. I see where automation makes sense here because it would be much more efficient to ramp up RPMs and the heater only when it needs it instead of in anticipation of it needing it.
 
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tstex

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2012
1,803
Houston, TX
You're referring to what temp you want the heater to cycle on and off. However, onve that temp is set, your heater won't come on until you manually turn it w no automation, plus your pump has to be on at min RPM Level.

W automation, you could set up for your heater to come on every day at a certain time (and preset temp) to heat your pool for the desired time. I'm not sure that any heater or system has a therastat that once the water hits a certain temp, it will initiate the heater to start w all the other necessary variables met. If so, then I do not have that capability. If someone does, I'm sure they will chime into the thread.
 

tstex

Silver Supporter
Aug 28, 2012
1,803
Houston, TX
One other clarification...you cannot "just leave a heater on"... Once turned on w proper RPM's & heater temp higher than water temp, it will only run up to 4 hrs, then shuts off, for safety purposes