Pool builder is recommending SuperPump 1.5hp (not VSP)

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
Hello this is my first post and I appreciate any feedback - I am 1 week into my pool journey (deposit is in with pool builder and the engineering plans are being drawn up)

I will be having a heat pump and salt water generator installed with the new pool. The pool installer thinks the VSP is not worth it based on the requirements of the flow rate for the heat pump and salt water generator. He was strongly pushing sticking with the 1.5 Hayward super pump that he uses standard. Sounds like this is his old reliable pump and I am trying to get a sense of what the best path is. I am in NY so this won't be running all year round. He seems to think it's a much simpler system with less to go wrong without the VSP - His recommendation seemed pretty strong. My wife is upset with me for questioning the pool guy, and thinks we should not over complicate things. The pool will be a 16x32.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,058
Laughlin, NV
Welcome to the forum!
The single speed will be noisy. It will consume 1.5kWh when running.
A VS pump will be quieter, and use probably less than 1/4 that amount of electricity.
And, starting next year, when the motor on the single speed must be replaced, it will have to be replaced with a VS motor. Federal regulation on Pool Pumps goes into effect next year.
I would suggest a 3 HP VS pump. And with a heater and SWCG, you should consider an automation system.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
Welcome to the forum!
The single speed will be noisy. It will consume 1.5kWh when running.
A VS pump will be quieter, and use probably less than 1/4 that amount of electricity.
And, starting next year, when the motor on the single speed must be replaced, it will have to be replaced with a VS motor. Federal regulation on Pool Pumps goes into effect next year.
I would suggest a 3 HP VS pump. And with a heater and SWCG, you should consider an automation system.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.
Thank you for the quick reply!! his concerns were complexity and the efficiency of the heat pump and saltwater generator. From everything I am reading the VSP seems to be the way to go, but I am having a guy with 30 years of experience telling me something different. Are his concerns valid?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,058
Laughlin, NV
There will be more complexity with a VS pump. It will have an onboard timer/scheduler so you will be able to set up what speed to run when. The SS pump will have an on/off switch, or hopefully, a timer. The SWCG does not care either way, as long as flow is enough to operate, it operates. Same with the heater.
Automation gets you a timer/scheduler, the power center with circuit breakers, and handles the SWCG so that it is only powered on when the pump is. It will monitor your water temperature, and if you add remote control, you can adjust temperature, pump schedules, etc remotely.

You are dealing with a pool builder that does things the old way. That is OK -- but I bet he has a cell phone. Why does he not just use his rotary dial phone at his office? Because there is a better way now.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
20,798
Ask the builder if he's willing to pay for the electricity for the single speed pump.

A variable speed pump is definitely the way to go.

You really need automation to tie it all together.

Get automation and the variable speed pump.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
Is there any reason why it would be easier for him, as the installer to be pushing the single speed pump? I am assuming the plumbing and installation is essentially the same.

As far as automation - would the automation replace the need for a sub panel (or should i say does it act as its own sub panel - with dedicated ground)?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,058
Laughlin, NV
It is easier for the PB because when done, you will have a switch, or mechanical timer, to control the system. Fool proof, so he never has to answer any questions. But he does not pay the electric bill, go to the equipment pad to make any changes, etc.

Automation would act as the sub panel if the automation selected has that feature.

Is the equipment being offered all Hayward?
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
I also see there is a $350 rebate from my electric company on Hayward VSPs - As long as the pool is installed properly I don't care about figuring everything out myself with regards to the complexity of the VSP - If he is going with a Hayward 1.5 super pump - a Hayward 3HP VSP would be the appropriate upgrade?
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
20,798
Go with the biggest TriStar VS.

When not heating, the pump can run at low speed.

On call for heat, the pump can speed up to the correct speed until the call for heat is completed and then the pump will resume at the lower speed.

The builder needs to get educated on modern operations and not just follow practices that are decades old.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
one more thing - if i decide to not go with automation, I should be good to now install a standard outdoor rated 100 amp sub panel (no need for the intermatic)- and at some point in the future i can get automation that ties into that?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,058
Laughlin, NV
If no automation, you will need a timer for the SWCG. You never want power to the SWCG without the pump running. PB will say rely on the flow switch. Do not do that. SWCG can explode if powered on with no water flow.
 

HeyEng

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Nov 7, 2018
567
Oklahoma City, OK
If no automation, you will need a timer for the SWCG. You never want power to the SWCG without the pump running. PB will say rely on the flow switch. Do not do that. SWCG can explode if powered on with no water flow.
This point is very, VERY important. There are at least a few posts here where a SWCG has exploded when the flow switch failed. This can cause a LOT of damage to pool equipment and if things go really wrong, you can burn your house to the ground.
 

jamjam

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
196
NY
I think this is all stressing my wife out, she thinks I am being a pain in the butt by not just going with what the PB is recommending. I am going to look into automation now, though. My fear is my pool builder has a 50% deposit right now but is going to be out of his league with automation.
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,058
Laughlin, NV
so i would set the SWCG to have power on a schedule that matches whatever the schedule i set on the VSP?
Correct. Or say a half hour to hour inside your pump schedule.

You may also find with a VS pump running the pump 24/7 is acceptable. Very little power use at low rpm.