Pool bonding and PVC to copper/brass connection

[JB007]

Hi. we are replastering our pool and re-doing/pouring a new deck.
Today the electrician was here and I am a little skeptical about the bonding; he attached a #8 bare copper wire to the rebars that extend out from the bond beam (every other 2 re-bars for a total of 6). BUT we only had these rebars around the section where the deck will be poured. He could not find any on the back and side of the pool that has no deck (is landscaped). I argued with him that he still needed to go around the entire pool to make a loop with the copper wire, but he said that was not necessary. Can anyone confirm this that the wire does not have to go around the pool ?
He basically started from a copper rod that he put in the ground 8ft deep, then went on one end of the pool re-bars, went 1/2 way around the pool attaching at 5 more re-bars, linking the 2 pool copper wire cables, crossed over the dirt from our future deck and hooked up the 2 pumps and heater.

Also, our 3 underground metal electrical conducts were totally rusted and he replaced them with PVC conducts. But the last 5 feet of conduct he left the thicker metal/copper/brass conduct (because it was anchored in the pool wall) and he connected it with a connector to the PVC conduct. I asked him if the connector was rust proof and he said they don't make a rust proof connector, but he would use electrical corrosion tape to protect it. Does any one know if this works ? or if there is a rust proof connector ? any potential issues ?

Thanks for any help.

 

[vtpools]

I'm not an electrician, but I can point you in the right direction. NEC 680 is the relevant code that you want to look at. There is a provision in there on perimeter bonding that states that the perimeter surface of the pool within 3' of the edge of the pool needs to be bonded. I'm also pretty sure the bonding grid doesn't usually connect to the grounding rod, but maybe someone else can chime in on that. Sounds like he's getting bonding and grounding confused. You could have the electrical inspector take a look at it.

 

[JB007]

I did read thru this NEC 680 rules/code. not easy to follow on some of the items if you are not an electrician.
The perimeter and distance have been respected from what i see. The question is : should he have bonded ALL AROUND the pool (making a loop) or is it sufficient to only bond 1/2 of the pool ? (remember he could only find rebars extending from the pool shell around the future deck area). My argument with him was he should have done a loop around the pool.
The other part that I am now questioning based on your response, is did he do a grounding or bonding ? For sure he attached the entire bonded area to the rod he stuck into the ground.
BTW, what should the bonding be attached to ?

 

[ajw22]

BTW, what should the bonding be attached to ?

Simple answer is pool, any metal within 5 feet of water, deck, and pool equipment that requires bonding. More complete answer in NEC.

Bonding should not be connected to grounds or electrical panel or to equipment in places other then the bonding lug on the device..

 

[JB007]

Here is a rough draft of how the bonding looks like.

 

[JB007]

so he should have never attached it to the copper rod he planted in the ground ?

 

[JB007]

and should he have made a loop around the pool ?

 

[ajw22]

See 680.26(B)(2) Perimeter Surfaces. Equipotential bonding must extend a minimum of 3 ft horizontally beyond the inside walls of a pool, where not separated from the pool by a permanent wall or building of 5 ft in height.

The NEC describes various ways of complying.

Also see Article 680—Swimming Pools, Spas, Hot Tubs, Fountains, and Similar Installations. pages 16-17.

 

[ajw22]

so he should have never attached it to the copper rod he planted in the ground ?

Correct.

and should he have made a loop around the pool ?

The bonding grid needs to extend for 3 feet around the entire pool.

 

[JB007]

Thanks for confirming.
From my understanding reading this too, he should have done the loop around the pool. That was my argument with him.
Surprised also that he attached all this to the rod he installed; mistaken grounding for bonding? Will have another electrician look at this.

 

[Toxophilite]

It's you and your's safety, so good on getting another electrician. It's also seems this project started with bonding of a replacement deck pour, so do have them check out the existing pool bonding and also the proposed deck bonding, along with equipment - the entire pool and system.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for confirming.
From my understanding reading this too, he should have done the loop around the pool. That was my argument with him.
Surprised also that he attached all this to the rod he installed; mistaken grounding for bonding? Will have another electrician look at this.

Many general electricians do not understand the finer points of NEC section 680 Pool Bonding if they don't regularly work on pools. So just being an electrician does not necessarily qualify them to properly do it although most will think they can do everything.

Also I am referencing the 2020 NEC. The NEC is updated every 3 years and it is up to your jurisdiction area to state which version applies, if any. So while the 2020 NEC may not legally apply and your electrician is not in violation fo anything it is not a good practice what he did.

 

[JB007]

I have to agree with you, seems like pool is a little more complex and if you have no experience with that it may be tedious. Don't think he was a "bad" electrician, just not familiar with pool handling. he did some other work and he seemed meticulous.
any one has a recommendation on a pool electrician that has experience with pools ?

 

[ajw22]

 

[JB007]

that sure is a good schematic diagram.
definitively need an electrician specialized in pools.

 

[Bama Rambler]

FYI, In the US, the NEC doesn't require the bonding grid to be 'grounded', but it doesn't prohibit it from being connected to a ground system, so while attaching the grid to a ground rod was unnecessary, it's not technically against the code.

 

[JB007]

Thanks for the info. Good to know.

 

[jmastron]

FYI, In the US, the NEC doesn't require the bonding grid to be 'grounded', but it doesn't prohibit it from being connected to a ground system, so while attaching the grid to a ground rod was unnecessary, it's not technically against the code.

And, while we say that bonding and grounding aren't the same thing and serve different purposes, as far as I know the bond and ground lugs on pumps (and other devices) are connected to the same metal case, and thus the bonding grid is (always?) going to be connected to the panel/electrical supply ground system somewhere, right?

 

[ajw22]

And, while we say that bonding and grounding aren't the same thing and serve different purposes, as far as I know the bond and ground lugs on pumps (and other devices) are connected to the same metal case, and thus the bonding grid is (always?) going to be connected to the panel/electrical supply ground system somewhere, right?

We are not going to get into electric system theory, different voltage potentials, and how grounds float in a pool forum. The simplistic view that it is all connected together so it does not matter is incorrect. Keep your bonds and grounds separate as the system designers intended.

 

[Bama Rambler]

And, while we say that bonding and grounding aren't the same thing and serve different purposes, as far as I know the bond and ground lugs on pumps (and other devices) are connected to the same metal case, and thus the bonding grid is (always?) going to be connected to the panel/electrical supply ground system somewhere, right?

While there are some equipment where the equipment ground and bonding lugs are electrically connected, but there is a lot of equipment (including pumps) where they are electrically isolated from each other.

As Allen said, Bonding and grounding systems should be considered separate systems. Discount anywhere they may be connected as an inadvertent connection.