Plumbing Help - Multiple Water Features

[luckyc1423]

I am designing my plumbing based on how a pool i bought 5 years ago was designed by a previous pool plumber.

Information: I am building a 1,200 SF pool that will have a spa, 2 bubblers, large waterfall, and a slide.

Requirements - waterfall on its own pump as its large.
Spa to heat up fast last time my spa took 3 hours to heat up and i had a 400k mastertemp. doing a 8x8 spa.

need to be able to independently control bubblers, waterfall, and slide with more than enough pressure.

Here is what I have come up with. I wasn't sure how the bubbler/blower gets incorporated so feedback here will help

 

[luckyc1423]

does this layout look ok?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Lucky,

Looks ok to me.. I was initially confused by the "Heated spa return" and the "Return Spa" but now I see that it is really just a normal Spa return and a Make-up line that allows water to go the the spillover spa when in the pool mode.

I'd want to use channel drains so that I did not have 500 drain covers in the bottom of my poo... Or maybe wall drains for the water feature lines..

When you say "Chlorinator" are we talking SWCG or Tab Feeder??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[luckyc1423]

I am doing chlorine/tabs. i know salt is recommended here but i am more conformtable with chlorine.

On the drawing i did have several questions.

1) How does the blower/bubbler tie into the plumbing? i just have it randomly off by itself

2) My old pool was plumbed this way, but do i need 2 pool return lines?

3) the bubblers i have on diverter valves and i know that is not the correct terminology. What i am looking for is just a ball valve type thing that i can modify the output to each bubbler. (so i can sync them up)

4) i have read on here that some people have a seperate spa pump. I am trying to wrap my head around that one. Currently i would turn it into spa mode, and the pump would turn the pool off and go into spa mode. what would the extra pump do? would the extra pump just go to the jets, and the pool/spa mode pump in spa mode would just go to the returns is that how it would be? is there any advantage to this? would this help my hot tub heat up faster as my biggest issue previously was it took 3 hours to heat up.

 

[luckyc1423]

also the way i have it does the water always come out of the jets, aka i have no dedicated spa return?

if i have a dedicated spa return then how does the system know to turn water to the jets?

 

[luckyc1423]

for the bubblers and water fall pumps. will those be tied into all the same pipe that is coming back from the Pump/Spa (just tied into the floor drain?

 

[luckyc1423]

Additional quesrjons

1) i have 3 pumps as shown. Currently planning on 2 skimmers, 2 floor drains in deep end, and 2 spa drains. I am Reading that a pump can’t share a drain wirh another pump. What would you plumb to what pump?

2) my equipment pad will be far away somewhere around 120’ (wanting to put it behind my barn. Is that run to far foe the pentair variable speed pump? Modifications to this location would be expensive as i akready Brought a electric panel there

3) should i run Is drain (skimmer and drain) all the way 150’ to the equipment pad or merge drains together on a line at the pool then run 1 line over?

4) what size pvc runs should i do Considering the distance?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Lucky,

I know what I would, but not sure that it is technically correct..

Let's see what @JamesW has to say ...

In my mind every suction line needs to individually go back to the equipment and be controlled by a Jandy valve.

For returns, I'd want at least 4 wall returns, one on each wall, connected to a loop that runs around the whole pool and then back to the equipment pad. This keeps the pressure at each return about the same.

When you say you will have two floor drains.. I assume you mean that you will have to drain covers that are tied together into one pipe that goes back to the equipment.. The reason for the "dual" inputs is so that no one can sit on a drain and held there by the suction. The same goes for the "duel" spa drain.. Really two drains tied together into one pipe.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[luckyc1423]

Makes sense.
What should i do for each pump then.

2 floor drains and all skimmers, as well as spa i assume Needs to be on main pump to make sure everything is corculating

where do i pull For other 2 pumps?

my last pool, worked well but was only 20’ to equipment pad, had this same setup and unless I’m mistaken did not have a dedicated suction for each pump. As in my last pool i has 3 skimmers, 2 floor drains, and 2 spa drains that if i understand It correctly app have to be tied to the main pump.

 

[luckyc1423]

Is this how my last pool builder did it?

it looks like the fooor drains has 3 inlets. So does that mean the floor drains can cover 3

if i undwrstans The photo right he took both left side drain inlets go to one pump, both right side going to second pump, each middle one going to a pump making up 4 total pumps

I’m my case, if i got This same drain, i connect Left sides together to pump 1, middle together to pump 2, right together to pump 3

with pump 1 being main pump i would Add skimmers to that.

do i have It right?

 

[JamesW]

my equipment pad will be far away somewhere around 120’ (wanting to put it behind my barn. Is that run to far foe the pentair variable speed pump?

The distance is never too far as long as you use the right size pipe. The size depends on the maximum flow rate that you want to put through the pipe.

should i run Is drain (skimmer and drain) all the way 150’ to the equipment pad or merge drains together on a line at the pool then run 1 line over?

Never merge lines underground. Always run them all the way to the equipment pad.

what size pvc runs should i do Considering the distance?

Depends on the flow rate.

Some unblockable drains have multiple ports that can be connected to multiple pumps if the installation instructions allow it and the total flow rate does not exceed the maximum flow rate specified for the drain.

If you have multiple skimmers, you probably don't need to connect the filter pump to the main drains if the skimmers will provide the full amount of water you need for the filter pump.

What are the flow rates that you want for each pump?

What will the elevation of the equipment pad be in relation to the surface of the water?

 

[luckyc1423]

I guess I dont Know what flow rates i want Or will be targeting. But maybe i can Give you dimensions of everything so that can help determine?

my pool is large, roughly 1200sf with a average depth of around 5’ (depth goes from 3.5’ to 8’). Not sure what the flow rate should be here to adequately clean the pool.

my spa is 8x8. Thinking I’ll have 8 jets. When in spa mode on the main pump I’ll just want to make sure the jets have enough force to actually massage

the waterfall pump
The waterfall is pretty big. Man made out of gunite. Approximate dimensions will be 20’ long x 6-8’ tall.

slide/bubblers
Enough water to get good action on the alide
On the bubblers side I’ll have 2 bubblers.

how should I calculate flow rate based on the above dimensions?



as far as equipment pad. As mentioned 150’ away. The equipment pad will sit slightly higher than the pool. It might be 2-3’ taller maximum.(if that)

 

[JamesW]

For suction, you want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec. For returns, you want to keep the water velocity below 8 ft/sec.

Size.......6 ft/sec......8 ft/sec.

1.5"...........38...............51 gpm
2"..............63...............84 gpm
2.5............90.............119 gpm
3.0".........138.............184 gpm
4”...........234.............313 gpm

For distance over 100 feet but less than 200 feet, upsize the pipe one size up from the chart.

For example, if the chart indicates 2" pipe, use 2.5" pipe.

Look up the flow rates for the spa jets and multiply by the number of jets.

For the waterfall, is it going to be water trickling down rocks all the way or do you want a solid sheet of water 20 feet x 8 feet?

Look up the flow requirements for the slide and bubblers.

 

[luckyc1423]

James - thank you. i will look up those specs.

for the main pump for the pool/spa. are you saying using 2.5" pipe or 3" for the suction?
I am assuming my pool is 41,000 gallons

On the return side is it 2"

sorry just tying to clarify.

Gallons - hopefully calculating right. per the document its 1,090' of pool area. taking average of 5' deep thats 41,000 gallons

note - pool plans attached. we are not going to do the firebowl/plants on top.

 

[JamesW]

For skimmers, I would do 2.5" pipe from each skimmer to the equipment pad.

The rest depends on the flow rates.

 

[luckyc1423]

James what is the best way to determine what flow rate i need?

Roughly 41-45k gallons. How do i detemrine What flow rate is adequate

foe the main pool/spa pump
You told me how to do others

 

[luckyc1423]

james - ok i will do 2.5" pipe for each skimmer. what about deep end drains?

if i am calculating it correctly, i have 45k gallon pool which means 95GPM to turn the water over in 8 hours.

so would 2.5" pipe for that work? as ill have several 2.5" pipes on the main pool pump
skimmer 1 - 2.5"
skimmer 2 - 2.5"
main drain 1 - 2.5"
spa drain 1 - 2.5"
spa drain 2 - 2.5"

will that be sufficient? as if i udnerstnad correctly each of the drains can do the 90 gpm for a total of 450 GPM, and i need 95 gpm so i have plenty is that the way to think about it?

 

[JamesW]

I would do 2.5" for the skimmer lines.

There really is no need to worry about turnover.

The size of the lines from the main drains should be at least 2.5" and maybe 3" depending on what flow rate you need.

 

[JamesW]

the waterfall pump
The waterfall is pretty big. Man made out of gunite. Approximate dimensions will be 20’ long x 6-8’ tall.

slide/bubblers
Enough water to get good action on the alide
On the bubblers side I’ll have 2 bubblers.

I would do a separate channel drain for each pump.

For the filter pump, 2.5" from the main drain to the pump should be fine since you will have 2 skimmers.

For the waterfall, I would do 4" pipe.

For the spa suction, I would use 4" pipe and 2 channel drains tied together.

For the slide, I would use 3" pipe unless it's a really big slide, in which case, use 4" pipe.

 

[luckyc1423]

Thank you. For the 4" pipe for waterfall obviously the drain takes 2" i believe. so i would just have a 2" to 4" adapter it sounds like?