Plumbing Help - Multiple Water Features

[JamesW]

If the channel drain has 3 ports, you can use (3) 2" pipes on the inside or maybe (2) or (3) 2.5" couplings to the outside if the outside is 2.5".

Then, converge into a single 4" line with a cross or 2 Ts and reducer bushings.

 

[JamesW]

Is the waterfall going to drop water 8 feet down in a big sheet or is it going to be cascading down rocks into the water?

 

[luckyc1423]

Like this.

 

[luckyc1423]

If the channel drain has 3 ports, you can use (3) 2" pipes on the inside or maybe (2) or (3) 2.5" couplings to the outside if the outside is 2.5".

Then, converge into a single 4" line with a cross or 2 Ts and reducer bushings.

sorry just trying to make sure i fully Understand

i will Have 3 pumps and 2 main drains wirh each drain having 3 ports for a total of 6 ports

port 1 on each drain gets tied together and goes to waterfall. Port 2 to main pump, 3 to bubblers/slide

so your saying ty drain 1 port 2, and drain 2 port 2 together into one 4” line to the pump?

so basically from the 2 drains i will Have 3 4” lines going back?

4” seems really big my plumber i dunno if he has ever run that

 

[luckyc1423]

I would do a separate channel drain for each pump.

For the filter pump, 2.5" from the main drain to the pump should be fine since you will have 2 skimmers.

For the waterfall, I would do 4" pipe.

For the spa suction, I would use 4" pipe and 2 channel drains tied together.

For the slide, I would use 3" pipe unless it's a really big slide, in which case, use 4" pipe.

sorry i just Saw this.
So your recommendation is do 3 total drains with each pump having its own drain?
I thought A pump had to be tied to 2 seperate drains in case of being clogged? Which is why i had Pumps ties to 2 drains just in different ports

 

[JamesW]

You might be able to use 3" pipe.

I was estimating high to be safe since we don't have an actual flow rate figure.

If you can get actual flow requirements, that would help.

Due to the 150 foot run and the system being above the water level, you have to upsize some.

I think that the main drains can be connected to multiple pumps if the installation instructions allow it.

For the line to the filter pump, you can use 2.5".

For the lines to the other 2 pumps, you can use 3" or 4" depending on the total flow required for each pump.

For the spa, you can use a 3" or 4" line from the channel drain pair depending on the total flow required.

 

[JamesW]

I thought A pump had to be tied to 2 seperate drains in case of being clogged?

Some drains are labeled as unblockable and are certified for single drain use.

The channel drain is usually listed as single use.

For the spa, I would use 2 channel drains even if one is allowed.

You don't really need a main drain for the filter pump.

I would probably do 3 or 4 skimmers on your size pool with no main drain for the filter pump.

There are multiple ways to do things.

I tend to overengineer to be safe.

 

[luckyc1423]

Thank you so much i appreciate The over engineering! I over Analyze just to make sure i understand Fully as I’m building my own pool.
I am Gojng to do some homework tomorrow and post my plan based on your comments wirh specific drains i am Doing to get your final feedback. Please he on the look out for a post tomorrow

thank you again.

 

[JamesW]

Try to find the specific requirements for the features like the slide and waterfall.

There are some that take 20 gpm and some that take 320 gpm.

If anything is premanufactured, the manufacturer should provide an installation manual that specifies the flow requirements.

If it's a custom design, the designer should provide the requirements.

Once we know the exact numbers, we can finalize the design.

 

[luckyc1423]

Try to find the specific requirements for the features like the slide and waterfall.

There are some that take 20 gpm and some that take 320 gpm.

If anything is premanufactured, the manufacturer should provide an installation manual that specifies the flow requirements.

If it's a custom design, the designer should provide the requirements.

Once we know the exact numbers, we can finalize the design.

I think that is where i am confused. This is a custom made gunite waterfall and gunite slide. So its my understanding nothing is predetermined i will essentially regulate the RPM's on the pump until i get the water effect that i like. The designer does really good work (he did the photo i have attached in this forum), just not sure he would know gpm's. i will ask him to see.

thnk you so much!!

anything specific for where you would put the skimmers and how many returns you would have? see attached what my designer said would be good. he said 2 skimmers to be in the northwest and southeast corners to take advantage of the wind.

 

[JamesW]

If someone designs a feature, they should be able to tell you how much flow it requires.

The person designing the plumbing can't figure out what size pipe to use if they don't know how much flow the pipe is expected to carry.

In the absence of reliable data, a design might be undersized or unnecessarily over built.

Undersized means that it's not going to do what you want it to do.

Over built means that you're wasting money on unnecessary time, labor and materials.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

For what it's worth, I have a 12' gunite waterfall/slide combo about 70'-80' from the pad. It pulls water though a 2" suction line (split VGBA) and routes to the waterfall via a single 2" line from the pad. From there, it splits through a two-way diverter valve to two 2" lines, one to the slide and one to the waterfall basin.

My Intelliflo VS needs to run at 2500 RPM to achieve a useable amount of flow to run both features. The PB originally set it up on split system with a dedicated 2 HP Whisperflo. I recently integrated waterfall/slide into the main pool plumbing and did away with the separate pump.

If I were to go it over again I would steer away from gunite-based slide. As fun as it is, in the last five years I've needed to have the chute resurfaced four times due to cracks and flaking of the coating on the chute. The PB has flipped the bill each time, but I'm not sure how long they'll continue to help out. If you do move forward, insist that the chute be covered under warranty for crakes and flaking of the chute.

 

[luckyc1423]

Ok. I got in touch with my waterfall/slide builder and since he is the actual person doing the work he said normally the plumber would run the right PVC size pipe. Since I am doing owner builder i want to make sure i get it right. Only feedback he had was waterfall, depending on the look i want, will need more water. the slide doesn't need much water. I added 1 more drain to give me piece of mind i will have plenty of suction for the waterfall no matter what the GPM need is. I can vary the RPM's. As the waterfall guy said its really up to me depending on looks.
I have used this waterfall guy once before, doesnt speak great english, but he is really good his end product is amazing so i am going to use him even though he cant give me a firm answer on GPM

also I thought it would be good to keep the same line size going back to the equipment pad (3"). I would rather not vary the line size so there are no excuses for the plumber "i thought this one was 2" not 3" type arguments". since i am doing owner builder i am trying to keep things consistent and really easy for me to verify that PVC pipe is same size and its the right size.

Here is my plan. Let me know what you think.

Note: This is just for the suctions. I will do the returns next. Remember equipment pad is 150' away.

Ok. I will effectively have 7 drains:
1) Skimmer 1
2) Skimmer 2
3) Floor Drain 1
4) Floor Drain 2
5) Floor Drain 3
6) Spa Drain 1
7) Spa Drain 2

From what i have read, the 32" waterway floor drains have 3 ports on them. The flow rate they give you is 352 GPM when using 2 ports combined. It sounds like the third port is a hydrostatic port (but has the same opening as the other ports).
So my thinking is, on floor drain 1 i would leave the middle port open to be used as my hydrostatic relief valve increase the water table comes up. the other 2 floor drains i will use all 3 as i only need 1 hydrostatic valve. I know the third port doesnt add GPM as they have no rating for that, but i do not want 3 hydrastic valves just from a failure standpoint. so i will tie all 3 ports into a drain even though i dont need that much suction.

Pipe Sizes. Please give me feedback.

1) I will tie Spa Drain 1 and Spa drain 2 together under the gunite using 2" PVC line. From there i will have a T that goes back to the equipment pad. That line will be 3"

2) Skimmer 1 will go directly back to the equipment pad using 3"

3) Skimmer 2 will go directly back to the equipment pad using 3"

4) Floor drain 1 - port A and Port C will be tied together under the gunite using 2" PVC. There will be a T and from there goes to the equipment pad with 3". The middle port, port B, will be left as a hydrostatic relief valve

5) Drain 2 & Drain 3 first run - Drain 2 - Port A & B, and Drain 3 Port A will be tied together using 2" PVC then goes back to the equipment pad with 3"

6) Drain 2 and Drain 3 second run - Drain 2 Port C, and Drain 3 Port B and C will be tied together using 2" PVC then goes back to the equipment pad with 3".

I randomly tied drains 2 and 3 together this way so i dont have any 1 pump on any 1 drain. The 32" waterway is listed as unblock able but i think i would feel better knowing for sure no way anyone can drown from sucking on the drain.

Thoughts on this plan?

 

[JamesW]

For the spa drain, I would use 2 of the channel drains tied together and then merged into a 3" pipe with (4) 2" pipes or (2) 2.5" pipes.

For a 3" line, you don't want to exceed 138 gpm, which is about 17 gpm per jet for 8 jets. If you want more than 17 gpm per jet, go to 4" pipe.

Skimmers should never exceed 63 gpm, so 2.5" pipe is fine for the skimmers.

The other main drains look ok as long as the drain installation instructions allow for two pumps to be connected.

As long as the you are confident that 138 gpm will provide enough flow for the features, the 3" pipe should be fine.

 

[JamesW]

If the channel drain ports will take 2.5" pipe, I would use 2.5" pipe instead of 2" pipe.

 

[luckyc1423]

I just have some clarifying questions so i fully understand this.

For the spa drain, I would use 2 of the channel drains tied together and then merged into a 3" pipe with (4) 2" pipes or (2) 2.5" pipes.

Isnt that what i had drawn up as i have the spa drains tied together with 2" line, then 3" back to the equipment pad. you mentioned four 2" pipes. i thought each spa drain has 1 drain port? are you saying they have 2, and just tie the 2 from drain 1 with the 2 from drain 2 on 2" lines and then do the 3" back?

For a 3" line, you don't want to exceed 138 gpm, which is about 17 gpm per jet for 8 jets. If you want more than 17 gpm per jet, go to 4" pipe.

I am probably going to do 6 spa jets but definitley not more than 8. all good then with the 3" back to equipment pad?

Skimmers should never exceed 63 gpm, so 2.5" pipe is fine for the skimmers.

Do i have to stick with 2.5" pipe, can i do 3"? as mentioned i would prefer to have one line size going back so there are no ways we could mess up the plumbing from a size perspective.

The other main drains look ok as long as the drain installation instructions allow for two pumps to be connected.

i cant find any information on this other than the manual giving flow for 2 of the 3 ports. i need to call the manufacturer i guess (waterway)

As long as the you are confident that 138 gpm will provide enough flow for the features, the 3" pipe should be fine.

are you referring to the 3" pipe running to waterfall pump?
I guess if thats not enough flow i could always, at the equipment pad, T into a skimmer or spa drain to make up the loss.
Are you sayuing 138 GPM is not enough?

If the channel drain ports will take 2.5" pipe, I would use 2.5" pipe instead of 2" pipe.

If i understand you, you are saying when i manifold drains or ports together, use the specified pipe size the drain takes. Example if it takes 2.5" use 2.5" to manfiold together then off to 3"?

 

[luckyc1423]

FYI the quotes i am recieving are saying 2.5" suction lines. they are pushign back on 3" lines.

DO i need to stick to my guns and keep searching for a plumber that is ok doing 3" lines or would 2.5" lines for everythign work ok?

 

[JamesW]

i thought each spa drain has 1 drain port?

I would use the same drains in the spa as you will use in the pool. The ones with 3 ports.

I am probably going to do 6 spa jets but definitley not more than 8. all good then with the 3" back to equipment pad?

You have to look up the flow requirements for the jets you will use. If they will work with 17 gpm, then 3" pipe is fine. If they require more than 17 gpm, you need bigger pipe. What model jets will be used?

Do i have to stick with 2.5" pipe, can i do 3"? as mentioned i would prefer to have one line size going back so there are no ways we could mess up the plumbing from a size perspective.

3" is fine.

I guess if thats not enough flow i could always, at the equipment pad, T into a skimmer or spa drain to make up the loss.
Are you sayuing 138 GPM is not enough?

I wouldn't T into the skimmer line. You can't T into the spa line because it would drain the spa. You can switch the filter main drain to either feature if necessary.

Example if it takes 2.5" use 2.5" to manfiold together then off to 3"?

The drains probably take 2" pipe inside the fitting and a 2.5" fitting outside the port. If the port can take a 2.5" fitting, use 2.5" pipe to merge to the 3" line.

 

[JamesW]

Are you sayuing 138 GPM is not enough?

I have no way to know what the flow rate needs to be.

I would rely on the slide or fountain maker to specify what the requirements are.

One slide might be fine with 60 gpm while a different slide would specify 150 gpm.

 

[luckyc1423]

the plumbing company i planned to use is telling me they strongly recommend 2.5" suction lines. they said they can do 3" but its not recommended and cost would increase alot