Plaster repair always going to look noticeable?

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Is there a county planning/building dept involved in this build? I guess they can't be expected to know the distance between rebar and gunite surface after the gunite is in place, but they can sure see it now, right? If it's exposed? Is it still exposed, or did they shoot the plaster already? Why don't you get a building inspector out there to put the screws to these two contractors? And/or another +1 for tstex's advice about an independent expert's eyes on this. Can I vote twice?
 
New user here, but I am the Husband of socks341968, hence the user name I chose. As far as building/code enforcement, will check, but most likely no such thing around here. (outside of city limits) Will try to find SME on concrete and also use a magnet to run over pool and check for re bar close to surface. Had a long talk with PB last night and sent him lots of pictures. The glass tile install looks bad (photos attached). The PB said they can fill in gouges left from the chip out 2 to 3 inches thick. How thick is too thick for plaster?IMG_20180414_171336048.jpgIMG_20180414_171848195.jpg
 
Nope, nope, nope..............can't use adult words but you know what I am saying in my head!!!!! GURRRRRRRR so much GURRRRRRRRRRR

You could dig through it with your fingers???????????? :shock: MORE NOPE!!!

I am going to hit up my "Master Pool Builder" bdavis aka Brian aka B to get his input on all of this. Make sure to put what you talked to your PB about in writing:

"As a follow up on our phone conversation on April 14 I want to make sure I understood what you said..................then write what you thought you hear him say and what you said." Send it "read receipt" as a double cover.

I will come back in a few once I have some time to digest what you just told me.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about all of these issues. The fact that the concrete was mixed for 3.5 hrs before even arriving at site would really concern me, and may have something to do with the weak sections you're seeing in the shell. With my job I design and supervise the installation of a lot of shotcrete for underground mining support structures, both wet mix and dry mix. We turn away any wet mix that can't be in place within 90 min of water being added, or within 2hrs of when the cement started mixing with the aggregate. I assume with the long drive that the water wasn't added until shortly before the trucks arrived, but a lot of the cement would have reacted with the moisture in the aggregate long before then.
 
I am no expert whatsoever, but that concrete does not look right at all. I have been looking at my shell for the past 3 months and it looks nothing like that. Ours is as hard as rock. I’m so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I do think your saving grace is that it is so bad, that you have noticed something is very wrong so soon.
 
Even if some expert(s) here can tell you what to look for, what is acceptable or not, etc., based on your descriptions and pictures and magnet tests, what will you then do with that information? Fire your contractors? Or insist they redo the shell based on a website's "ruling," or your magnet? I was suggesting a building dept rep as a way of getting authoritative third-party eyes on site, to do a proper inspection. A person that would be looking out for your best interests, not the bottom line of the contractors. But there doesn't seem to be any Midland City or Dale County building/planning dept's (which I find incredible).

Are you ever going to feel comfortable with what either of your contractors do, or tell you? I think your research is prudent, here and/or elsewhere, but I think you're delaying the inevitable. You have to get an expert in there to first determine what needs to be done, or redone, and then approach the PB about how this is going to be resolved. I just don't see how constructive it is going to be siting anything you might learn on the internet, or discover yourself.

I'd start shopping for an onsite expert asap, if it were me, to see if that was a possibility, both in terms of logistics and cost... and then go from there.
 
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MinerJason said:
I'm so sorry to hear about all of these issues. The fact that the concrete was mixed for 3.5 hrs before even arriving at site would really concern me, and may have something to do with the weak sections you're seeing in the shell. With my job I design and supervise the installation of a lot of shotcrete for underground mining support structures, both wet mix and dry mix. We turn away any wet mix that can't be in place within 90 min of water being added, or within 2hrs of when the cement started mixing with the aggregate. I assume with the long drive that the water wasn't added until shortly before the trucks arrived, but a lot of the cement would have reacted with the moisture in the aggregate long before then.
Click to expand...

There should be batch tickets for the loads as they left the plant.

Miner- We may have a mutual friend or 2.. in the tunnel shooting biz.
 
As suspected earlier and verified by pool owner [husband], you should NOT be able to use your finger to dig into any type of concrete structure, period. This really applies to something that was also recently poured, not like Andy Dufresne in The Shawshank Redemption.

I also have a place in the country, which is not subject to any code except for septic tanks . Therefore, I can understand the predicament that the owners are experiencing. However, there is a huge investment here by owners already and getting a concrete SME out there is a must. The gunite shell MUST be extra strong in this instance since it was earlier described as a very sandy/sandy loam soil base. Any future leaks moves this type of soil quite easily and if a weak shell, the rest is history. Pool owners might call their country agent, then have them be referred to a State agent. I know there's someone in AL that can help them.

The investment into a concrete/masonry inspector is well worth the peace of mind in the years to come. If I were the owners, I would video tape the removal of concrete w the finger, then expand back to show it's the structure in the their backyard. Time to have a heart-to-heart w PB and Gunite/Plaster owners

Good luck,
tstex
 

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This whole thing has been like a bad movie. So, they used some concrete on the tanning ledge and ledge in the deep end, as well as to fix and smooth the steps, and around the light. They reapplied the tile which I still think looks like a three year old's work to be honest. Then they showed up yesterday and replastered the pool. I'm a night shift nurse so I was asleep during the process, but my husband was out there the whole time. He said that when they immediately finished it, that it looked pretty good. There are a few areas on the steps and ledge that look lumpy and it doesn't have that nice sharp even edge that it once had. The BP and plaster company decided that they were not going to start filling the pool, and would let it dry and acid wash it today. Well, I woke up while it was drying, and walked outside to take a look and about had a heart attack. It looks like a bad tie-dyed tshirt everywhere. I really want to post pictures, but I can't seem to get rid of the old ones and put new ones up here. We sent the PB a picture. He said not to worry, the acid wash will fix that right up. I for one, was still worried. This morning I got up and it's bad when my husband says "Babe, you might want a drink before you walk outside." I was like oh, no. It's cracked/crazed EVERYWHERE. I was afraid that would happen and mentioned it yesterday. With the pool being emptied so many times lately, and for so long, our concrete around it has cracked like crazy too. It's so crazy because this is a reputable pool builder that builds huge commercial pools too. I frankly think it's time to drop back and punt. They are coming to acid wash today. Will keep you informed!
 
Socks, you cannot acid wash cracks and other...I am going to send you a PM message to post the pictures for you if you email me the ones that you want posted..we need some eyes on this...this might be a complete redo, but you need to know now before it gets any worse

PS - do you still owe them any payments? If so, what % of the entire cost ?
 
Oh Socks and husband of sock :( Take pictures with time stamps on them! Have them printed out and put in a safe place. Put and get EVERYTHING in writing!

For pictures on here.....you can email them to tstex or myself (PM him or I to let us know so we can send you our email) or you can use a picture hosting site like Flickr. Use the IMG code to post it right in your post. Do NOT use photobucket as the have started charging $399 a YEAR for 3rd party hosting :(

They are so wasting time and resources by acid washing that plaster......time for a full STOP! I cannot believe they would even put plaster on that soft, crumbly gunite.

They are going to have to take EVERYTHING out-----------new plaster, GUNITE down to, around, and under the rebar. It is going to be a HUGE, nasty job BUT that is the only way you will have a pool that will last for more than a year. That gunite HAS to come out! It is the base of the pool and it is not solid so there is NOT way anything will hold up over time.

I feel for you and your family...........this time of fun and joy is being ruined by bad workmanship!
 
I'm not going to add yet another "get it in writing" post. But here's something similar if you've already been doing your documenting. If you're like most people you keep your pictures on your phone, and maybe put a few of those on a computer when you're posting or emailing them. If so, do yourself a huge favor and gather up all your pics, and find a reliable way to back them up. Put them on a second computer, or a flash drive or start a DropBox acct. Something. Personally, I'd do all of those things (and have, with my "evidence" data for my upcoming court case). Because whatever pictures and movies and emails you've gathered, or will be gathering, could be worth the price of a brand new pool someday, and the way this is going that might be years from now (I'm still trying to collect from my pool contractor, six months later, and that's only $9K).

Don't gamble what might be a very important component of the outcome of this unfortunate circumstance on the memory chip of a phone you carry with you everywhere... if that's what you're doing. I'm sure that's not what you want to hear about, or do just now, but you need to start preparing yourself for a rough road ahead.

Sorry, that's all I can add. Feeling so bad for you just now...
 
Dirk, Thanks! We've got copies on both of our phones, and computers, and a back-up drive. No way we are losing these things. I will probably print some out too just in case an EMP hits the Ft Rucker area where we are located. I'm not taking any chances with this stuff anymore.

Sorry about you having to apparently go through a bad situation of your own. It's a shame that you have had to go to the point of litigation. I'm glad you aren't taking it sitting down though! You should be able to request money for your time taken in research and record-keeping. Good luck!
 
Here are the pic's that socks sent me - perhaps she can explain them - good luck, tstex
 

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It's super hard to see all of the cracks in the pool in the pic of the whole pool. I will say that it looks every bit as cracked as the other close-up pictures of the tanning ledge. You can actually put a piece of paper between the cracks on the ledge. The entire pool looks like an Easter egg that has been dropped and rolled a few times. We have been told these will resolve in a week or so. On another note, they acid washed the pool today before filling and my husband realized they had used 28 gallons of acid on it, some of it not diluted at all. BTW, we donated and are now Gold supporters! This website, it's information, and experts are much needed by the general public! We would have been LOST.
 
Socks.

If you want to take a close-up and use a higher resolution camera, pls do so and send it to me...

I am not aware of either water or acid that can seal cracks; is anyone else?

I read your signature and it states your going to have tumbled travertine installed on concrete...until this whole gunite shell and plaster issue is resolved, don't install the travertine..it's only going to get destroyed if you have to later remove material out of the pool...

let me know on the pics, tstex

PS - great to have your join TFP...thank you
 

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