Plaster repair always going to look noticeable?

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Well, there's prob lots of advantages to where you live and as we noticed, some things harder to rectify...I am assuming there are no traffic jams near your house...

Guess you just have to work w PB, but as suggested, keep the State Agency info close at hand just in case - good luck, tstex
 
socks341968 said:
Everyone, we are both originally from Texas....
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Thank you for this background and explanation about how things are where you live. It's just so foreign to me that I can't wrap my head around it. It sounds like you've found a solution, or at least know how to go about getting one. I wish you the very best!
 
Oh I feel you on the "southern way". I am as Southern as you can get-born in GA, living in N. FL but still don't like how laid back things like this are. Yeah you are lucky if they show up at all and work a full day :roll:

You are doing all of the right things and doing them the right way. Good job!
 
I needed to show a site plan and have drawings just to get a permit for my 10x16 shed. I dare say my area has gone a bit to far to the other extreme as far as building permits go.

I've been lurking on this thread for a while I really hope everything gets sorted for you guys. You've got a long road ahead of you.
 
Thanks, Ray. No traffic jams except for wrecks and at Christmas (shopping). I work about 17 miles from my house, and I'm there in less than 15 minutes. We built a 3 car garage, and then later a 4 car garage, no plans, no anything (they were licensed builders though), and still no changes to any of our taxes. There are parts we love, and parts that drive us CRAZY. But, you get the good with the bad :)
 
Well, for a whole day I thought maybe they were right and those cracks might be healing. Didn't happen. The pool chemistry balanced, and the water turned crystal clear, and there they were in all their glory. The PB is going to redo it again in a few weeks, but will be going with a pebble finish. They also plan on building the tanning ledge back up with concrete and not trying to put so much plaster on it this time (go figure). The only one that I really like from the Pebble Tec is the Pebble Brilliance in the Clear Water color. I'm sure it costs quite a bit more than the regular plaster, but he's going to have to suck it up. This will be the third time that our pool has been emptied in the past 3 months. Anyone have any thoughts on Pebble Tec and the Pebble Brilliance?
 
That is so disappointing [emoji19] We are going with mini pebble it’s called salt and pepper here, and I think soft white there. No advice yet as ours isn’t installed. Interesting fact that pebble tec is an Australian company. Must be a good product [emoji13] Our neighbour has it and I don’t find it rough at all, though some people who are use to plaster do. Fingers crossed for take 3!
 

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Sock, go w a pebble-sheen..it's a lot less rough and much easier on the feet...

As stated, the chip-out this time needs to be extensive and you have time to get someone to inspect gunite. is the tanning ledge the area where the gunite crumbled upon touch? If the gunite was not properly mixed, it will not cure properly. This might be why your plaster is not working bc the gunite is desiccated and pulling moisture from the plaster. It's really all speculation until someone that has the proper tools can professionally check the gunite shell. Have you asked the PB about this matter? If so, what are his comments? Also, you better have an amendment to the contract that spells out an extended warranty on gunite and plaster. what kind of warranty comes w your gunite and plaster/pebble-tec? This too is very critical.

Good luck, tstex

Really sorry you are going though all of this..
 
I know its been said already but... Unless that shell is rock hard like a concrete sidewalk there is something seriously wrong with the shell of the pool. If they are still gouging those huge scrapes in the shell with a chipping chisel there is something very wrong. There should be at best light surface scrapes from a chipping gun 1/2 inch deep max in cured concrete.

Think of the plaster/pebbletec as like a layer of paint. If you paint a metal ball and a plastic ball they will look the same at first. Now once the paint its dry you can squeeze the metal ball and nothing will happen to the paint. If you squeeze the plastic ball the paint will crack and chip and peel off. When you add the water to the pool it is the same as squeezing the ball. The water in your pool weighs in the neighborhood of 200,000 lbs or around 100 tons when full that makes for a pretty strong handshake.

The same thing is happening to your pool shell. The bad gunite is flexing like a plastic ball and the plaster is cracking and peeling off. The PB by suggesting you go to pebbletech is hoping that the pebbletech is stronger and more flexible to resist the movement of the shell underneath. Also the pebbletech will be more likely to hide minor hairline cracking because its a non-uniform pattern.

They are doing a full chip out again make sure the owner of the pool company comes out and literally puts his hands on your pool shell after the chip out. Pull out a screw driver and scrape any soft spots you find in front of him. Document what you showed him and get his response in writing why he is justifying that to be ok.

I wish you the best in getting this resolved.
 
Socks...Chuck above nailed it...

if the PB cannot be there to see the shell after chipped, then take 4-5 diff videos of being able to remove gunite like it's clay...then send him those videos...you can also send them to any concrete place or other w out travel time...this is both economical, timely and doesn't require someone driving 3-4 hrs...you may be using this as evidence in the future too. make sure when take the video's, to pan up to your house and the area so you "location stamp-it". This way there's no refuting it's in your back yard.

And yes, a jack-chipping.hammer that removes large pieces of gunite means the gunite is bad, not that the jack hammer is extra powerful...good luck
 
We will definitely have the pool shell checked out. It makes us both sick what another chip out will do to it as well. Almost feel like they should just start over because it's about 30 years or more worth of wear on the shell to chip it all out again. Another question. Did anyone ever have the acid wash done and them not neutralize the acid and just pump it out on your side yard? I'm fairly certain they didn't put anything to neutralize the acid before they pumped it out into our side pasture.
 
Chuck,
The plaster was actually cracked everywhere like an egg before they even began filling the pool. They definitely chipped more than an inch in several places. My husband states they were using a flat chisel (like 3" wide) and pointed chisels to chip out the pool. I think they basically had no idea what they were doing. I think that they "over" chipped out areas by using a pointed chisel instead of using something flat. I literally have no idea why you would use a pointed chisel on something that you were trying to take surface areas off. It was just gouged out pretty bad on the sunshelf and and the shelf in the deep end. That's where the worst cracks are at. I will post new pics. I believe that the pool company has over-extended itself again this year, and sent us the crew that was not experienced, or just didn't care. What do we do at this point? Ask for a new shell or can the shell be repaired??
 
Ive done a fair bit of chipping concrete thru my years. Even with a pointed chissel on a pneumatic chipping hammer you have to work really hard to get the gouges you took a picture of. That's not just an oops I wasn't paying attention slip of an inexperienced crew. Properly mixed and cured concrete just isn't that soft.

You need to show the owner of the company how soft the pool shell and and make him put in writing his justification of how the shell being that soft is ok. Ask him to show you another pool shell that he is currently working on and show you how hard or soft that one is.

There is no good way to repair a she'll like that. There will always be a "cold joint" where the new concrete meets the old concrete. The concrete will never bond at that joint and it will always be a crack.

A pool shell should be done in a single monolithic pour so it is all one solid piece.

You should be asking and pushing for a new shell.

You need to get the pool builder to see the condition of your shell face to face and in person. You need to make him see the problem isn't the plaster it's the concrete. It's going to be a hard pill for him to swallow he's going to loose a lot of money. Present him with solid facts and evidence and get his response in writing. Document everything with dates and times and signatures. Make sure anything he signs he puts a date with it as well.
 
Wow,that's what we were thinking. Ugh. This is going to get to ugly. I know we need to do it, and I know my husband can get it done, I just feel awful that we have to go through this along with the BS we are going through in our personal business with not so good employees. This stinks. I wish someone that has gone through this type of situation would post. That would help. I've never heard of such a mess with a brand new pool.
 
This whole pool needs to be taken back to the dirt.....................plaster out, gunite out, rebar out! They will have to cut the rebar to get it up and out but that is the ONLY way they will be able to remove the gunite under it. Accept nothing less.

Think of it like this......gunite/shotcrete is concrete like a side walk in essence. It should NOT crumble or be easy to chip out. There should be flakes and chunks flying while they chip on it. NOT turn to power and fall away. People have skateboarded in their shells before!!!! Think about that! NO way that could have happened in your shell :(

I am happy/sad to say this is the first time I have seen something like this happen. I have seen some bad plaster jobs that had to be redone but this shell work is beyond anything I have ever seen before. Good for others but not good for you to pick their brains about how they fixed it.

And for this to happen while you are dealing with bad employees??? SO not fair :grrrr: Which one do you want me to "have a talking to" for you??? Let me at them!!! I will use my teacher voice that can clear a Kindergarten playground in under 2mins!
 
As chuck stated, get everything in writing/times stamped and signed or his refusal to do so. Ta
take videos of the pool chipping out process and see the sizes that come out...grab some of the bigger pieces and take them to your concrete driveway. Have eyewear [PPE] and let your husband hit them w a hammer. If they crumble vs barely cracking or only sm pieces chip, then you validated the shell is bad...

Viewing another gunite shell is a good idea, ones that cured. However, not sure how the PB is going to let you take a hammer to it. If there is any left over gunite, take a few pieces of that and try the same hammer method as described above.

After validating the pool shell is bad, it's time to have a one-on-one will PB and show him your videos and evidence. He will draw the same conclusion as you and if not, then have husband pull out the big guns, yet as politically correct as possible.

good luck guys,
tstex
 

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