Ph after water softener First readings

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

@mknauss and @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta would you be willing to share your installations, especially if you have autofills?

I tapped into my autofill line just past the backflow/regulator. The portable softener uses garden hose connections.

To transition from the 3/4" PVC to garden hose thread at the supply line, I used two 3/4 in. Slip x MHT PVC Hose Fittings, and connected the softener in and out lines using braided stainless steel washing machine hoses (I used 8' hoses). Because both hoses are female/female, I swapped out the fittings at on the softener to brass male fittings. Note that the threads on the softener are standard pipe threads (FIP).

At the softener outgoing connection, I used a garden hose Y-adapter with shutoff valves. One side is connected to the autofill and the other is used for occasional CH testing of softened fill water. My softener is stored in a pool equipment shed.

 

[mknauss]

60A03D34-70A8-4F1B-A142-8A2CB7BCEED1.jpeg

• mknauss
• Mar 20, 2021

C2AB147A-FEDC-411E-9299-F6D752198440.jpeg

• mknauss
• Mar 20, 2021

75C841B0-64D7-4E72-B228-04B6333A9A8B.jpeg

• mknauss
• Mar 20, 2021

I did pretty much the same as Mike.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I did pretty much the same as Mike.

Actually, it's the other way around...I did pretty much the same as Marty

 

[kul]

Hi @DanF, I don’t have an easy method to connect this to my autofill so plan to just connect it to my hose bib. I use my hose to top off the pool anyhow so it works out. I usually need to top off once a week during the summer.

 

[DanF]

Thanks everyone. So these units don't require AC power, like an in-home one?

 

[mknauss]

Thanks everyone. So these units don't require AC power, like an in-home one?

No. You manually regenerate.

 

[kul]

My yellow electronic ph meter purchased from TFP when I got my kit is reading ph at 8.2, but my kit seems to be at 7.8. Which one should I go with? Usually I do both and they match up pretty well, but this time it’s confusing. Photo attached. In the shade I can see maybe it could be 8.2, but in the sun it looks like 7.8.
I’m considering adding 2 cups of 14.5% MA to bring it down. Guidance please.

 

[Newdude]

If they agree, great. When they don't, trust the drops. Also you want it bright so I wouldn't trust the shade test either.

If you ever were to add a bit early at 7.8, the world will keep spinning. Your pennance will be that you'll have to add next time sooner as well. The price of beer remains unchanged.

Adding MA a few days or a week late here and there won't matter much either. Stay on top of it and you'll get it right more often than not.

Now, if you ever catch your FC approaching minimum, you want it added yesterday.

 

[DanF]

I actually think your drops reading is closer to your meter reading. The drops PH looks like 8.0 to me. HOWEVER, I am slightly colorblind and for this reason picked up the Apera PH60 electronic tester and haven't looked back. You might try calibrating your meter if you haven't done so already, by dipping it in a known pH solution. Just a thought.

 

[kul]

Today when I looked at it, it was closer to 8. So I added 2 cups of acid and will check again tomorrow. That photo was in the shade so I just wasn’t quite sure because in full sun it looked like 7.8. Either way, it’s certainly gone up a bit. Thanks for telling me about your meter @DanF ! I’ll look into it. My meter is calibrated, and I no longer have any calibration solution left (accidentally spilled it) so it’s possible it might be off a bit or maybe right on. I think I’m just going to rely a bit more on the liquid testing until I buy more solution to recalibrate or buy a different meter.

 

[DanF]

(accidentally spilled it)

Good to hear I'm not the only one!

 

[kul]

@Rancho Cost-a-Lotta @mknauss @JoyfulNoise
I just set up my water softener (same one as @mknauss ) and did testing of the output water.
I have the following readings of the water coming from the softener:
PH = 8.2 (normal fill water is 7.6)
CH= 0 (normal fill water is 100)
TA=120 (same as normal fill water)

Questions:
1. Why does softened water have a higher ph? Is it because of the resin inside of it?

2. Since my current pool CH=200, then for top offs due to evaporation, should I use my regular fill water without the softener until my CH comes up to 250? And then transition to the softener water?

 

[mknauss]

The softener should not have any effect on pH. But the pH of the fill water has little effect on your pool pH.

Probably best to use non softened water for a bit to get the CH up to 250 ppm or so.

 

[kul]

The softener should not have any effect on pH

That would also have been my assumption. However my testing appears to be accurate.
I have tested 3 different outputs of my regular fill water and ph value with both the ph meter and the TF-100 test kit is 7.6

However the PH from the softener water (also tested three times) testing with the kit and the ph meter is 8.2.
I had my husband also confirm the color.

This is not a deal breaker for me since CH is my main concern. But I did not expect the PH to be different. The only difference between the tests is that in one I’m testing without the softener and the other with the softener.

Would you mind testing your ph and sharing if there is a discrepancy?

 

[mknauss]

Would you mind testing your ph and sharing if there is a discrepancy?

I will try to remember when we get back home. But like I said, the pH of the fill water is pretty inconsequential to your pool water chemistry.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

A couple of things -

1. Your water has high TA which means that it naturally will creep up in pH to 8.2-8.4 all on its own from outgassing of CO2. The softener resin bed has a lot of surface area which can promote greater out gassing of CO2.

2. There could also be residual caustic in the resin that needs to be flushed out. Most resin beads will be treated with sodium hydroxide to impart the sodium ions into the resin polymer as it’s the quickest way to establish the sodium content of the resin. When you regenerate your resin, you will be using sodium chloride to provide the sodium ions that will displace the calcium ions removed from your fill water. So you might want to flush the resin for a while and then regenerate it and see if the pH rise gets any better. Most installed water softeners with go through several backwash and rinse cycles right after installation and then an initial regeneration with brine to get them started.

 

[kul]

Thanks for the information @JoyfulNoise I’ll test the ph over the next year as I continue to use the softener and see how things level out after a few regenerations.

Also thank you @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta for the link to the water gauge on Amazon. I will be receiving it tomorrow and plan to start using both it and the softener once my CH gets up to 250 with my regular fill water.

Also, just checked my official water usage and it looks like the RO used about 1600 gallons. Including this information for anyone else who might be considering RO. For me, there was about 11% water replacement

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Also thank you @Rancho Cost-a-Lotta for the link to the water gauge on Amazon.

My pleasure. For $15 it does the job. It will only track up to 1,000 gallons, then start over at zero. It's not a problem if you log fill water usage.