Pentair VSF pumps won't operate indepedently

[falcor]

I have a Pentair IntelliCenter panel with 2 Pentair IntelliFlow VSF pumps. One pump is tied too the pool/spa (2 separate bodies but I don't think that matters here) and the other pump is for a waterfall. My understanding is that these pumps should be able to operate independently. I should be able to turn on only the pool/spa pump without turning on the waterfall or turn on only the waterfall without turning on the pool/spa. Similarly, I should be able to set separate flow rates for each pump.

One problem I have is that the waterfall pump will only turn on if the pool/spa pump is on. I can run the pool/spa without the waterfall but not the other way around. The other problem is that the waterfall pump's flow rate is also dictated by the pool/spa flow rate. I like to have the waterfall run at a higher rate (e.g 60 to 70 GPM) so there's enough pressure for the water to come out far enough and run the pool/spa on a lower rate (e.g. 40 GPM) with that pump running for a large portion of the day. But when I turn down the pool/spa pump I can obviously see the flow rate of the water coming out of the waterfall diminish and then it just doesn't look good.

My pool installer has checked for any crossed wires that could cause the pool/spa pump to be affecting the functionality of the waterfall pump but couldn't find anything. He then said that he thinks that there's something in the pumps (e.g. a set of dipswitches or something of that nature) that could be set to the same value on both pumps so the panel intends to send a command to one but it actually gets picked up by both. He was trying to contact Pentair for guidance but says that they aren't returning his calls so he will need to get into the pumps to investigate further. I'm having trouble getting him back out though (it's been ~2 months, we made the mistake of paying the final invoice before this was fixed so they are in no hurry now) so now I'm asking for help here.

Does anyone know of any obvious/easy solutions that I could try? Anything to look for in the panel programming or wiring? In case it matters (it probably does to some degree), the menu on the panel shows that pool/spa is set to address 1 and waterfall is address 2. I can provide any other configuration or wiring details/pictures if needed.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Post pictures of your equipment pad.

Post pictures of the inside wiring of your IntelliCenter.

Does your waterfall pump has its own drain in the pool it pulls water from?

 

[falcor]

Does your waterfall pump has its own drain in the pool it pulls water from?

Yes. In the images below, PMD on the left = pool main drain, WF MD on the right = waterfall main drain. In the pool, they are two separate sets of drains.

Post pictures of your equipment pad.

Post pictures of the inside wiring of your IntelliCenter.

 

[ajw22]

Off topic but it is front and center.

The gas line to the heater is improperly installed without a sediment trap, I don't see any gas cock manual shutoff on the line, and the flex line is not recommended and looks undersized...

 

[ajw22]

Show me your schedules and pump settings for both pumps...

 

[falcor]

Where did you get that screenshot from? I only have the Pentair Home app on my phone at the moment, but your screenshot looks like it came from some website or desktop app.

Here's what I see in the app's pump menu. #2 is the waterfall. It's not scheduled to be on right now (as you'll see below in a screenshot of the schedules) but I just turned it on manually for this screenshot. Side note - it has never shown me any kind of flow rate or power usage info for the waterfall pump.



Here are the separate pump settings:




Schedule information is below, but I don't think that's relevant here. This happens even when manually turning pumps on and off through the app or at the panel. The schedules also have no way to adjust flow rate, they're just on/off toggles.

 

[ajw22]

Where did you get that screenshot from? I only have the Pentair Home app on my phone at the moment, but your screenshot looks like it came from some website or desktop app.

Go to IntelliCenter on a desktop browser.

https: //www. intellicenter2.com/

 

[ajw22]

Change the pump settings from GPM to RPM and see if the behaviors change.

GPM causes some unwanted behaviors.

 

[ajw22]

Show me the labels on the front of both pumps. Under the suction pipe.

 

[ajw22]

What happens to the filter PSI when the flow varies and the pumps turn on and off?

 

[falcor]

Go to IntelliCenter on a desktop browser.

https: //www. intellicenter2.com/

Ah, nice. New screenshots below.

Change the pump settings from GPM to RPM and see if the behaviors change.

GPM causes some unwanted behaviors.

Interesting, but annoying since GPM makes more sense to me (i.e. adjusting RPM is a way to get me to a desired GPM). But I'll try it and see what happens.

 

[ajw22]

Interesting, but annoying since GPM makes more sense to me (i.e. adjusting RPM is a way to get me to a desired GPM). But I'll try it and see what happens.

We will discuss that once we understand what is going on.

 

[falcor]

Show me the labels on the front of both pumps. Under the suction pipe.

I don't know which side is considered the front, but there is nothing directly under the input pipe. Do you mean this?

Change the pump settings from GPM to RPM and see if the behaviors change.

GPM causes some unwanted behaviors.

Interesting, but annoying since GPM makes more sense to me (i.e. adjusting RPM is a way to get me to a desired GPM). But I'll try it and see what happens.

No change. The steps I performed were:

1. Change both pumps to RPM based on the current RPM that was listed for the pool/spa pump but rounded to the nearest 100
2. Turn off both pumps
3. Turn on the waterfall pump and wait, nothing happened
4. Turn on the pool/spa pump, then the waterfall (and pool) turned on
5. Reduce RPM on the pool/spa pump (that was a few hours ago, but if I remember correctly I went from 2100 RPM to 1000 RPM), which caused the waterfall flow to slow to a trickle

What happens to the filter PSI when the flow varies and the pumps turn on and off?

There's no observable change in PSI on the pool/spa filter when the waterfall pump is turned on and off.

If I turn on the waterfall pump when the pool/spa pump is already on, the waterfall pump runs hard for a bit (priming? 30 seconds or so) and the PSI shoots up, then the pump and filter PSI drop off. Interestingly enough, the filter basket in the waterfall pump is pretty much always clean and the filter PSI is only around 1 when it's running. But maybe that's just because the pool/spa drains are toward the bottom of the deep end and the waterfall drains are 2 - 4 feet higher, so the pool/spa drains get the heavier stuff (grass clippings, poly sand from pavers) and the waterfall just gets water and minor particles.

If I turn on the waterfall pump when the pool/spa pump is off, I hear a click at the panel and lights change on the waterfall pump but it doesn't run hard like it's trying to prime and the filter PSI stays at 0.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Falcor,

Please tell me what the "Circuit Function" is for your Waterfall Circuit???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[falcor]

Please tell me what the "Circuit Function" is for your Waterfall Circuit???

I don't see anything specifically named "Circuit Function" but here's other circuit related config...

At the panel, I went to advanced system setup -> circuits and nothing was listed.



There is some circuit info when I go to the pump.

Setup -> pumps -> VSF #2 (the waterfall pump) -> circuits



Then clicking on that i.e. setup -> pumps -> VSF #2 -> circuits -> waterfall:




For good measure, here's what I see at setup -> pumps -> VSF #2 -> settings:

 

[ajw22]

If the Circuit Functions is set to MASTER CLEANER the circuit will only run when the filter pump runs. That is why Jim is asking.

Show us this screen…

 

[ajw22]

And this for your pump circuits…

 

[ajw22]

 

[ajw22]

This is the pump label I am looking for…

 

[ajw22]