Pentair ic40, surge board, intelliph and swg transformer.

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I need to open mine up and take a look. I'll try and get to that this weekend.

I've been running the SWCG since March/April of 2020, and I added the IpH in October of 2020 (with about 1 week run time before cold water disabled it). I do have Oct/March where the system is off due to cold water, but I'm going on season #3. I do run my pump 24/7 and have never ran my IC more than 30%. This would at least give an indicator if running low IC % is better for the connections.

--Jeff
 
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We've got another thread similar to this one, and they both seem to be problems caused by a surge or lightning, rather than connector over-heating (i.e. cell drawing high current for a long time). related thread:

IntellipH control panel and ic40 not communicating?

Got a few updates with @oakwater's iph board... it doesn't work (yet), but I got it to power up without making any more smoke! The relay coil won't operate the device and half of the contacts are toast (the rs485 "A" input is open while the "B" input is closed) so I pulled it to get a better...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

If anybody wants to try a repair... the input protection parts D3/D4 seem to be MCC SMAJ6.0CA devices ("tvs" diodes), the 485 chip is a ti SN65HVD485E, and the relay is an NA-5W-K (5v dpdt, but there are lots of substitutes). datasheets:
(mcc tvs) https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1684841.pdf
(485 chip) https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn65hvd485e.pdf
(relay) http://www.ic112.com/uploads/pdf/20171019/NA5W-K.pdf

I'm wondering if there'd been better protection on the 485 lines, then the parts listed above might not have died. Other folks have used 485 suppressors and I think one was from serialcomm... I don't know how well their units work, but they have gas discharge tubes as primary protection which is theoretically very good. https://www.serialcomm.com/serial_r...85_surge_suppressor.product_general_info.aspx

These boards have good esd protection, but seem to have low protection from large surge transients. I suspect D3/D4 (and the comm chips) are blowing up because when a large surge transient occurs, the tvs diodes (d3/d4) can shunt the voltage to ground, but there's nothing to limit or stop the current that's going to go through them... so they cook a little bit

This Analog Devices article has some good info (engi-nerdy but understandable) about electromagnetic events and how protection works:

Safeguard Your RS-485 Communication Networks from Harmful EMC Events | Analog Devices

Analog Devices, Inc., and Bourns, Inc., have partnered to extend their offering of system oriented solutions by co-developing the industry’s first EMC compliant RS-485 interface design tool that provides up to Level 4 protection levels for IEC 61000-4-2 ESD, IEC 61000-4-4 EFT, and IEC 61000-4-5...
www.analog.com www.analog.com
 
ogdento said:
We've got another thread similar to this one, and they both seem to be problems caused by a surge or lightning, rather than connector over-heating (i.e. cell drawing high current for a long time). related thread:

IntellipH control panel and ic40 not communicating?

Got a few updates with @oakwater's iph board... it doesn't work (yet), but I got it to power up without making any more smoke! The relay coil won't operate the device and half of the contacts are toast (the rs485 "A" input is open while the "B" input is closed) so I pulled it to get a better...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

If anybody wants to try a repair... the input protection parts D3/D4 seem to be MCC SMAJ6.0CA devices ("tvs" diodes), the 485 chip is a ti SN65HVD485E, and the relay is an NA-5W-K (5v dpdt, but there are lots of substitutes). datasheets:
(mcc tvs) https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1684841.pdf
(485 chip) https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn65hvd485e.pdf
(relay) http://www.ic112.com/uploads/pdf/20171019/NA5W-K.pdf

I'm wondering if there'd been better protection on the 485 lines, then the parts listed above might not have died. Other folks have used 485 suppressors and I think one was from serialcomm... I don't know how well their units work, but they have gas discharge tubes as primary protection which is theoretically very good. https://www.serialcomm.com/serial_r...85_surge_suppressor.product_general_info.aspx

These boards have good esd protection, but seem to have low protection from large surge transients. I suspect D3/D4 (and the comm chips) are blowing up because when a large surge transient occurs, the tvs diodes (d3/d4) can shunt the voltage to ground, but there's nothing to limit or stop the current that's going to go through them... so they cook a little bit

This Analog Devices article has some good info (engi-nerdy but understandable) about electromagnetic events and how protection works:

Safeguard Your RS-485 Communication Networks from Harmful EMC Events | Analog Devices

Analog Devices, Inc., and Bourns, Inc., have partnered to extend their offering of system oriented solutions by co-developing the industry’s first EMC compliant RS-485 interface design tool that provides up to Level 4 protection levels for IEC 61000-4-2 ESD, IEC 61000-4-4 EFT, and IEC 61000-4-5...
www.analog.com www.analog.com
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Great work Tom, and report. That, along with what you came up with regarding the IntellipH over-current problem (we can connect red-to-red and black-to-black before they get to the circuit board) is such an awesome contribution. Really appreciate it.

I will, of course, take full credit for dumping this on you the delegating! ;)

At some point, I will connect my IpH's reds and blacks and report back. Then, when you declare you're done with your experiments, and when I can find the time, I'll do what I can to bring everything together in a cohesive thread.
 
hah, thanks @Dirk, but you and the other guys already did the work... i just took a look at the board ;)

But i think you're right about writing it up... and we can join heads when we're done looking at stuff, but we'll probably have (at least) two sections to discuss and hopefully prevent the over-current and the 485 surge issues. Maybe we can add it to the "Further Reading" content (it already has some mention of this stuff)?
 
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I have spoken to the area rep. He said he has been out to your home before with our service team. With your particular set up he said the IC40 has to be used with the Intelliph combination. I asked if we would be able to assist at this time this time and was told we could not.
I can provide information on service teams or parts if you need help.
Hope this information is helpful as you go forward.


Thank you,
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Here is the response that I received back from Pentair today. It was a little bit vague but I think it means that they’re not going to help me out. I wonder if I can file the paperwork for small claims court. I know it’s not worth the effort but I’ve always been curious how that process works and if I prevail it gives all of you an opportunity to call Pentair and let them know that they need to do right by their customers for building a defective product that could catch somebody’s house on fire. I also did a little bit of research on the CPSC to see whether or not I should file a claim for safety issues. I don’t want to be a jerk as Pentair has stood by me and helped me out quite a bit and always been very supportive on the phone but most of my issues have been related to this problem.
 
slickrock22 said:
Here is the response that I received back from Pentair today. It was a little bit vague but I think it means that they’re not going to help me out. I wonder if I can file the paperwork for small claims court. I know it’s not worth the effort but I’ve always been curious how that process works and if I prevail it gives all of you an opportunity to call Pentair and let them know that they need to do right by their customers for building a defective product that could catch somebody’s house on fire. I also did a little bit of research on the CPSC to see whether or not I should file a claim for safety issues. I don’t want to be a jerk as Pentair has stood by me and helped me out quite a bit and always been very supportive on the phone but most of my issues have been related to this problem.
Click to expand...
Believe me, I have fantasized often about a class action lawsuit for several things Pentair chooses to ignore. But then I wake up. Their bean counters have probably already done the math: if one of these catches a house on fire vs the cost of recalling all of them. Whatever.

More to the point... are you sure you're interpreting that response correctly? It could also sound like their go-to guy in your area is just too busy, or no longer doing that work, and that Pentair is saying they could help you find someone else and/or just send you the parts you need. They've actually done both for me. My local Pentair service guy was the same one that destroyed my plaster. So when I called Pentair for the first IC fix, I told them I couldn't have that same guy on site again. So they arranged for some other guy, who was much farther away. The second IC incident, they just mailed me a new IC.

I would try them again, maybe a different support person, or as I mentioned, escalate this to their next support tier. Make them elaborate on that response. Offer to do the replacement yourself, if they furnish the part(s). Another X minutes on another phone call or two might still save you some c-notes...

I don't think you have to go ballistic just yet.
 
Dirk said:
Believe me, I have fantasized often about a class action lawsuit for several things Pentair chooses to ignore. But then I wake up. Their bean counters have probably already done the math: if one of these catches a house on fire vs the cost of recalling all of them. Whatever.

More to the point... are you sure you're interpreting that response correctly? It could also sound like their go-to guy in your area is just too busy, or no longer doing that work, and that Pentair is saying they could help you find someone else and/or just send you the parts you need. They've actually done both for me. My local Pentair service guy was the same one that destroyed my plaster. So when I called Pentair for the first IC fix, I told them I couldn't have that same guy on site again. So they arranged for some other guy, who was much farther away. The second IC incident, they just mailed me a new IC.

I would try them again, maybe a different support person, or as I mentioned, escalate this to their next support tier. Make them elaborate on that response. Offer to do the replacement yourself, if they furnish the part(s). Another X minutes on another phone call or two might still save you some c-notes...

I don't think you have to go ballistic just yet.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you and I've already responded back to them asking to clarify their position. I will let you know what I hear. I definitely do not want to go ballistic and they have been a pleasure to work with over the years so I want to work with them to get this fixed in a professional way. I also want product companies to realize that they need to have some accountability for faulty manufacture and or design. It has just been a lot of back and forth with calls to support and visits on-site and challenges when I just want it to work. If a product that they manufacture doesn't work correctly they should not be selling it until it is corrected.
 
Just a follow up. I didn't get to it over the weekend because it was so ridiculously windy on Saturday that I didn't want to go outside, then yesterday it rained off and on all day and was generally gross and I didn't catch a long enough period of no rain to go mess with it. But this evening after work, I got home and opened up everything to take a look at my surge board, and IpH.

I have the later model surge board with the pigtail connector soldered to the board. No hint of any darkening of that connector or the connection at the board. I opened up the IpH and looked at it and also noticed that there was no indication of any darkening of the board connector there either.

Not sure what this indicates but just thought I'd follow up with my findings.

--Jeff
 
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I was just drinking my morning coffee and had a thought. Maybe it has already been answered so I apologize if this is a duplicated question. Why would an IC60 run without problem (fried surge board) indefinitely but with the introduction of the IntellipH board in-stream create overcurrent that fries both the IntellipH board and the surge board. I don’t think that the IntellipH is increasing the current or amperage draw is it? So is the IntellipH board somehow pulling more current at a certain point? Sorry if this is a dumb question. I really want to get this system back up and running so I do not have to manually dose acid all the time and I’m trying to determine whether I want to buy a new intelliph board or hack an approach that doses based on time and uses the Easytouch programming. It drives me nuts to put something in service that is almost guaranteed to fail and cost $500 each time.
 

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slickrock22 said:
It drives me nuts to put something in service that is almost guaranteed to fail and cost $500 each time.
Click to expand...
That is exactly why you should not attempt it again! The 2 options listed are the best way around, with peace of mind and no fire risk involved. Its your pool and you should do as you see it best. The rest is still a mistery.
 
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Flying Tivo said:
That is exactly why you should not attempt it again! The 2 options listed are the best way around, with peace of mind and no fire risk involved. Its your pool and you should do as you see it best. The rest is still a mistery.
Click to expand...
OK I'm ready to make this happen. Drives me nuts to have to keep dispensing acid every week. Yes, I am lazy. How do I wire the power for the stenner pump? Can you send me pictures of how you have done this? Also how critical is it that I have to move the injection point to after the SWG? What about when I run the hot tub? Thanks!
 
Pentair recommends the injection point before the SWG, so you can leave it like that. That is how mine is for the last 2 years with no problem.
On this thread is the picture of the wiring splice from the IC board that goes to the AUX relay on the input side. Then you remove the connector of the stenner pump and connect it to the load side of the relay. If you wired the SWG transformer Correctly to the first Pump Relay then the safety is in place, the stenner pump would not run if the Main pump is not on.

IntelliPh control box down.

Control box not working, read up on @bdavis466 post about wiring through a relay. I understand the wiring, but my question is: Can i get the 26VDC from the SWG control board (this is where the PH gets its original power from)on the extra connector of my ET8 with integrated SWG transformer? Dont...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

If you have any questions im here to help.
 
Flying Tivo said:
f you have any questions im here to help.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for making the discovery on this. This weekend I changed my pool pad and ripped out my old 220 Volt pump that no longer is used for the Polaris. I was also able to remove that wiring, and, in its place, I installed the IPH. I spliced it into the outgoing power from the surge board (per your direction) and connected it to a relay. I was then able to program it in screen logic to run for two minutes every day which according to my measurements in a measuring cup my system outputs 125 milliliters a minute. Running it for two minutes a day dispenses 250 milliliters or 8 ounces of 50% diluted acid. I don't like the way that I connected the relay to the outgoing power of the surge board. I used wire nuts which required too much of the wire between the surge board and the connector and made it difficult to work easily. Thankfully, this surge board is fried, so I have one test subject before the new one arrives. It still powers the chlorinator but does not report back any information or allow me to control the output via the application. I feel like I can at least go to sleep at night without the fear that I have a 2% chance of everything breaking again. I am also able to use my IC60 as opposed to the IC40 with the IPH board in between.
 
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slickrock22 said:
Thank you so much for making the discovery on this. This weekend I changed my pool pad and ripped out my old 220 Volt pump that no longer is used for the Polaris. I was also able to remove that wiring, and, in its place, I installed the IPH. I spliced it into the outgoing power from the surge board (per your direction) and connected it to a relay. I was then able to program it in screen logic to run for two minutes every day which according to my measurements in a measuring cup my system outputs 125 milliliters a minute. Running it for two minutes a day dispenses 250 milliliters or 8 ounces of 50% diluted acid. I don't like the way that I connected the relay to the outgoing power of the surge board. I used wire nuts which required too much of the wire between the surge board and the connector and made it difficult to work easily. Thankfully, this surge board is fried, so I have one test subject before the new one arrives. It still powers the chlorinator but does not report back any information or allow me to control the output via the application. I feel like I can at least go to sleep at night without the fear that I have a 2% chance of everything breaking again. I am also able to use my IC60 as opposed to the IC40 with the IPH board in between.
Click to expand...
Something like this is what I am thinking about using T-Connector
 
Another update!

During my daily pool check, I noticed my IC40 lights were out. Looked at the IpH and noticed there was no display. Pulled it open and found this...

IpH Burn 1.JPGIpH Burn 2.JPGIpH Burn 3.JPGIpH Burn 4.JPG

Looks like I am going to be doing some soldering tonight!

I did increase my IC40 setting to 30% yesterday, from 25%.

Weird that 3 weeks ago to the day, I had checked on it and noticed no discoloration at all on the connector.

--Jeff
 
Turbo1Ton said:
During my daily pool check, I noticed my IC40 lights were out. Looked at the IpH and noticed there was no display. Pulled it open and found this...
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that this happened to you. This is a faulty product was poorly designed and now Pentair will not stand behind it. Maybe it's time for the gofund me to hire an attorney :). Calling any TFP attorneys...Bueller...Bueller
 
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