Pentair IC40 high salt - but Taylor OK

[jsteve17]

Any update on this? Also, have tried reading out the internal temperature of your IC40 with its "testmode" feature? You can find the procedure here: Pentair Intellichlor ICXX SWG - Further Reading

I'm having the same issue. Mine is showing a salt level of 5500 in IntelliCenter. However, I have measured 3600 with the TF Pro Salt kit, and 3100 with a friend's digital salt tester.

This is my first full season with the pool, and I just added salt back in April. From the beginning, my cell would read around 4400 with a true salt level of 3600 as measured by both myself and the pool store. At that time, my water temperature was 70 F.

I read that the IC40 does not compensate for temperature. So, my guess is it has always had this problem, but now that the water temperature is higher (currently 85), it has pushed the salt reading above the limit, causing my high salt light to flash.

I've read a bunch of posts on here regarding high salt reading with correct salt levels, but none seem to post back what they did to fix it, or they just lived with it.

I did do the test mode on the IC40 last week to see if it was reading temperature correctly, and it was properly lighting up 80% with a water temperature of 84. Also, the IntelliCenter app is currently showing 85 in the Chemistry area. Not sure if that is the IntelliCenter water temperature probe reading or the reading of the thermister in the IC40 itself.

Today, I cleaned the cell hoping that would fix it. I inspected the cell, and it looked clean. I bought the cap to do the MA cleaning procedure, so decided to try that anyways. I added a 1:1 solution and saw no bubbles (expected, as it looked clean). Left it for 10 minutes, then flushed it out and put it back into service. It still read 5500.

Not sure what else to try. Sounds like if I call Pentair, they're just going to recommend a new flow switch. However, if it is showing the correct temperature, and good flow, not sure how that could be it.

Moved from here.

 

[mknauss]

I read that the IC40 does not compensate for temperature.

It does. The thermistor is in the flow switch.

Also, the IntelliCenter app is currently showing 85 in the Chemistry area. Not sure if that is the IntelliCenter water temperature probe reading or the reading of the thermister in the IC40 itself.

The Intellicenter uses the temperature from the probe in the plumbing.

Next time, read this before cleaning the cell with acid. Not a great idea.

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

If you are under warranty, report it to Pentair.

 

[jsteve17]

Thanks for the reply!

Hopefully, I didn't reduce the life of the cell too much with the acid cleaning. I went back and read the manual again, and it does say (1) quart of acid to (1) gallon of water. I guess I just saw 1:1, but is actually 1:4.

Ok, I'll give them a call.

 

[mknauss]

As described in the Wiki article I linked, we do not recommend using a mineral acid at all. No matter what dilution, it still removes some rare earth metal from the SWCG plates. If an acid is needed, cleaning vinegar is better suited for the job.

 

[jsteve17]

Just spoke to Pentair and they said it sounds like the flow switch, which is what I figured they'd say. I questioned the diagnosis since the internal temperature seems to read fine and the flow also shows good. They said that's where we'll start, and if that doesn't fix it, they said they would see about sending me a replacement cell. So far I'm happy with the service.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Just spoke to Pentair and they said it sounds like the flow switch, which is what I figured they'd say. I questioned the diagnosis since the internal temperature seems to read fine and the flow also shows good. They said that's where we'll start, and if that doesn't fix it, they said they would see about sending me a replacement cell. So far I'm happy with the service.

The flow switch is an easy replacement/fix. If that solves the problem, then that’s great. Better than waiting around for warranty replacements to show up.

No more mineral acids. Use a water jet from a hose or, at most, diluted cleaning vinegar.

 

[jsteve17]

Ok, so here's a quick update...

Pentair sent the new flow sensor. I installed it, and it made no difference. It read the same before and after. Since the last post (and prior to replacing the sensor), the IC40 is now reading lower. It is showing ~4400 with a measured salt level of ~3200.

It also seemed to stop producing chlorine. I was out of town for a couple weeks. I had previously set the IC40 to 20% which kept my Free Chlorine stable (at 4ppm). When I came home, it was at 0.5. So, I put in some liquid chlorine and bumped it up to 40% to make sure it wasn't just set too low. When I originally switched to salt, Pinch-a-Penny suggested 40%, but after a couple days, my FC was at 11. So, that should be more than enough. However, after a few days, I was back down to 0.5.

I called Pentair back up, and they sent me a new IC40. I received that on Tuesday and ran out to install it. Hoping that would be the end to my IC40 issues. However, it read the same as the old one (~4400). I called Pentair back, and they said to give it 24hrs. It did come down some later that night, but has since stabilized at 4200.

I thought maybe the transformer was bad. So, I went out and measured. I am reading 30.5VAC between J8 & J9 on the IntelliChlor SCG Circuit Board (output of the transformer). I also measured the DC voltage going to the IC40, and I get 40VDC between GND and VDC with the IC40 connected. When I disconnect the IC40, I measure ~26VDC. This looks to be ok based on some other posts.

Tuesday, I also added some more liquid chlorine. It was a bit cloudy, so I added enough to bring me up to 7ppm. Which was the high end of my recommended level.. I also left the setting at 40% with the new cell. Today, I measured my FC at 3ppm. I'm assuming that since I'm really close to the low end of the recommended range, this is affecting my chlorine production, so I'm going to add salt this evening.

Any other thoughts? Could it be due to something in my plumbing? Could it be something else in my water that the salt cell is falsely seeing as salt? I have a couple other friends with the same cell and they read correct.

I just tested my water today, and here are my results:
FC: 3
CC: 0
pH: 7.8
TA: 80
CH: 400
CYA: 50
SALT: 3000
BORATES: 40
WATER TEMP: 85

I also went to Pinch-A-Penny, and here are their results:
FC: 2
pH: 8.0
ACID DEMAND: 1 Drop
TA: 105
CH: 350
CYA: 60
TDS: 4000
SALT: 2800

 

[mknauss]

Do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. What is occurring sounds like you have algae.

 

[jsteve17]

I did the OCLT and was down 2ppm (last night was at 7, this morning 5). So, I'll SLAM it.

I thought if I had a problem that my CC would elevate, which would then indicate I needed to SLAM it. However, my CC is 0.

Pentair turned my support ticket over to Pinch-a-Penny. I'm hoping (but skeptical) that they'll be able to figure out the high salt reading. I did add a bag the other day to bring it up a bit (I'm now reading around 3400), and my IC40 is indicating high salt and showing a reading of 4850.

 

[jsteve17]

Today's update...

Pinch-a-Penny came out to check it out. Didn't see anything wrong with the device physically (as expected). So, in talking with the tech, I told him about my TDS level being 4000. He said that was high, and was thinking that maybe it's metals in the water causing the high reading. So, he suggested I get a metal sequestrant. I don't have any staining in the pool. However, he thought maybe the rest of the chemistry was good enough so it hasn't caused staining, but is in the water.

So, I went up to my local store to get that and a bunch of chlorine to do SLAM. I also took up a sample to get tested. They also tested for metals:

FC: 2
TC: 2
CC: 0
pH: 7.8
ACID DEMAND: 1 Drop
TA: 120
CH: 450
CYA: 40
TDS: 4600
SALT: 3000
PHOSPATE: 1000
SEQUESTRANT: 1 Drop (says normal is 10-12 drops)

The store suggested I first get rid of the phosphates before anything else. For which I bought Salinity Phosphate Remover. She thinks this is causing my cloudiness and what is eating my chlorine. After 24 hours she told me to manually vacuum then add the Salinity Stain Control (metal sequestrant) of the metals, acid, and chlorine. So, I put in 16 oz of the phosphate remover a few hours ago. However, I just read here that may be junk, and I may just add them back in by adding a metal sequestrant.

The tech then called me back. Said he spoke to his Pentair rep. He thinks since my TDS is high, it may be more than just metals. He wants me to do a water change of a couple feet and see what that does to the TDS. He wanted me to get it down below 3000 before adding salt back in.

I looked back at some old tests, and right before I added salt in April of this year, my TDS was 900, my calcium was at 500, and my FC was 3. They had me do a water change to get that calcium down. When I did that, I did about 12" (~3500 gallons), which dropped my calcium to 325. However, my TDS was still 900. Though, it looks like I also added chlorine, because my FC was 6. Maybe this accounts for the TDS netting out to the same? So, not sure another water change would affect my TDS this time around.

Also, I haven't been adding any water with the hose. We've been getting enough rain here in Florida to maintain the level.

So, I'm a bit confused at the moment on which advice to follow (or maybe it's neither). Anyone have any experience/thoughts on this?

 

[mknauss]

TDS is meaningless. Phosphates are not an issue.
Do an OCLT.

 

[jsteve17]

I did an OCLT and lost 2 ppm. Was going to do a SLAM, but they said to get rid of the phosphates first. I'll do a SLAM tomorrow.

However, I think it's getting confusing because I have two issues in this post. My main issue is that my IC40 is reading high salt. A secondary issue is my chlorine levels being low. I thought they became the same issue because I thought the salt cell wasn't producing. However, after doing the OCLT, it looks like something is eating my chlorine. So, I'd like to table that one for now, and probably for the entirety of this post. I'll do a SLAM and likely take care of that. If I have further issues there, I'll create a new post.

So, to focus back on the high salt reading on my IC40. The problem is that Pentair has now focused on the TDS reading for it causing high readings on my IC40. So, I think I'm going to have to do something about TDS in order to have Pentair help figure out my high salt reading.

Do you think that TDS is a high, and could be causing the salt cell to read high salt?

I appreciate your help!

 

[mknauss]

The salt is included in your TDS. TDS by itself is meaningless. What component are they concerned about?

 

[kellyfair]

I thought if I had a problem that my CC would elevate, which would then indicate I needed to SLAM it. However, my CC is 0.

Don’t ask me why, but even when I’ve had a green-as-grass pool, I’ve never shown CCs. I rarely even bother measuring it anymore. OCLT is much better indicator of something brewing (of course, if you have a swamp, that’s your sign!)

 

[jsteve17]

The salt is included in your TDS. TDS by itself is meaningless. What component are they concerned about?

They didn't say. The technician just said that it was a conductive reading and that if there were metals it could throw off the reading. Then the Pentair rep told him to have me lower the TDS first.

Again, given that it didn't lower in the past with a water change, I'm reluctant to do a water change, and would prefer to do the sequestrant first. Changing water would lower my water temperature and cause me to have to add a bunch of chemicals.

Don't know, this is driving me nuts. I have two other friends with the same setup (IntelliCenter/IC40) and theirs read close to the actual salt level. I don't know what I'm doing different here.

 

[mknauss]

Your initial salinity was 3600. CH is 400. Those are elements of TDS. Added they equal the TDS you got from a pool store.

Something is off in the cell. Getting Pentair to accept that will be the issue.

 

[kellyfair]

I'll do a SLAM tomorrow

You meant that you would start a SLAM tomorrow, right?

I think you should SLAM your pool. Then when you pass OCLT, dial your SWCG back in and see if you are producing chlorine as expected. Don’t add any other pool store treatments, and then let’s see what your numbers look like, both from the unit and from your salt test kit.

Forgot to add that if you then do not produce chlorine as expected, you probably need a new cell.

 

[jsteve17]

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Your initial salinity was 3600. CH is 400. Those are elements of TDS. Added they equal the TDS you got from a pool store.

Something is off in the cell. Getting Pentair to accept that will be the issue.

Actually, when my TDS was 4000, PaP had my salt at 2800 and my CH at 350, I had my salt at 3000 and my CH at 400. So, even with my numbers it's 600 off. Now, in the more recent test, they have my TDS at 4600 with SALT at 3200 and CH at 450. Now, I have no clue how CH increased by 100 without adding any calcium. So, if you take my most recent numbers of SALT at 3400 and CH at 400, it is still off by about 800.

Even I find it hard to believe something is off in the cell when I had a 2 cells and a new flow sensor all read about the same. I'm thinking it is more than likely a control board or transformer issue, but PaP didn't check any of that when they were out here. I'm also thinking about taking my cell over to my friends pool (who's IC40 reads more accurately) to see if mine also reads accurately in his pool with his controller. That would rule out one variable.

Not trying to negate everything you're saying, just talking through it. I appreciate your help!

 

[jsteve17]

You meant that you would start a SLAM tomorrow, right?

I think you should SLAM your pool. Then when you pass OCLT, dial your SWCG back in and see if you are producing chlorine as expected. Don’t add any other pool store treatments, and then let’s see what your numbers look like, both from the unit and from your salt test kit.

Forgot to add that if you then do not produce chlorine as expected, you probably need a new cell.

Correct. Today I plan on vacuuming the pool (from having the phosphate remover in for 24 hours), then start a SLAM.

However, this isn't going to fix my salt cell reading high. It has always read high.

 

[kellyfair]

Correct. Today I plan on vacuuming the pool (from having the phosphate remover in for 24 hours), then start a SLAM.

However, this isn't going to fix my salt cell reading high. It has always read high.

Not necessarily expecting it to - just slowing things down and taking it one step at a time!