Pentair 400 Mastertherm heater issue

[kipthomsonkaty1]

My heater was installed in May 2020 and it has worked in the past. There are no lights on my heater control panel and it is not working. I check the power and I have 240 coming in. The fireman switch fuse appears to be good and I have power into the board (tested with a voltage tester--three wires have power). Clean out the inside and did not find any wires that appeared to be damaged. Visually inspected the board and did not see any damaged areas. The heater light is activated on the Aqualink and there is nothing inside that unit to suggest that this cable is not working (how do I test this)?

Tried a new control pad but that did not help.

Does this mean I need a new board or is there something else that I should test? My unit is May 2020 install with 5 buttons. If I upgrade to the 6 button option where does the red/black flame cable go?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

First thing to do is disconnect the wire at the the fireman switch running to the Aqualink and jumper together the connection in the heater.

This puts the heater into local control using its control panel. If it lights up then it tells you the problem is in the wire to the Aqualink or the heater relay on the Aqualink board.

Let us know what happens when you do this.

 

[1poolman1]

My heater was installed in May 2020 and it has worked in the past. There are no lights on my heater control panel and it is not working. I check the power and I have 240 coming in. The fireman switch fuse appears to be good and I have power into the board (tested with a voltage tester--three wires have power). Clean out the inside and did not find any wires that appeared to be damaged. Visually inspected the board and did not see any damaged areas. The heater light is activated on the Aqualink and there is nothing inside that unit to suggest that this cable is not working (how do I test this)?

Tried a new control pad but that did not help.

Does this mean I need a new board or is there something else that I should test? My unit is May 2020 install with 5 buttons. If I upgrade to the 6 button option where does the red/black flame cable go?

Thanks for your help.

Have you turned it on in the Jandy? Have you run the diagnostic menu in the Jandy? What water temp does the Jandy display when the pump is running? A bad water-temp sensor will not allow the Jandy to turn it on, therefore, no lights at the heater.

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

Thanks for the input. 1poolman1 I did try putting the pool in service mode and turning on the heater. That did not work. The Jandy is showing 67 degrees for the pool, which seems right. Don't know how to run the diagnostic menu in the Jandy--can you point me to a resource to help with that?

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

AJW22 not sure how to jump the fireman switch. Here is a picture. Have jumpers. Do I pull the two connections at the bottom (red circles) and jump it there?

 

[ajw22]

AJW22 not sure how to jump the fireman switch. Here is a picture. Have jumpers. Do I pull the two connections at the bottom (red circles) and jump it there?

Yup, remove the orange wire nuts, disconnect the wires in the grey cable from the yellow wires, twist the yellow wires together and put a wire nut on the connection. You have disconnected the heater from the Aqualink system. Then see if the heater turns on from its control panel.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks for the input. 1poolman1 I did try putting the pool in service mode and turning on the heater. That did not work. The Jandy is showing 67 degrees for the pool, which seems right. Don't know how to run the diagnostic menu in the Jandy--can you point me to a resource to help with that?

How are you controlling the Jandy? All Button? One Touch? iAqualink? PDA?
In the "Setup" menu it is the next-to-last item that can be selected.

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

I am using the wifi IAqualink to control the Jandy. Need to get it reconnected as it got disconnected when I turned the power on and off

 

[1poolman1]

I am using the wifi IAqualink to control the Jandy. Need to get it reconnected as it got disconnected when I turned the power on and off

Here is a very good instruction on reconnecting if you don't know how (you have to open the outside antenna):

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Good news is that when I removed the Jandy control wire from the system the heater came on and I was able to heat the pool and the hot tub by using the controls at the heater. When I looked at the diagnostic on the Jandy it said Water Sensor OK, Air Sensor Ok, Solar Sensor Opened. Does that mean there is a problem with the Solar Sensor?

 

[ajw22]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Good news is that when I removed the Jandy control wire from the system the heater came on and I was able to heat the pool and the hot tub by using the controls at the heater. When I looked at the diagnostic on the Jandy it said Water Sensor OK, Air Sensor Ok, Solar Sensor Opened. Does that mean there is a problem with the Solar Sensor?

If you don’t have solar heating you do not need a solar sensor.

Good, your heater running shows the problem is with your Aqualink. Either the wire connecting the Aqualink and heater, the heater relay on the board is bad, or you are not operating the Aqualink controls correctly.

You know how to check continuity with a multimeter?

Check that the relay on the board closes when you call for heat.

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

I do know how to use a multimeter to check continuity so we have that issue covered . Also pretty sure I am using the controls correctly, both with the iaqualink and when I put the Aqualink panel at the pool in service mode and hit the heater button. Some questions: Which board am I testing--the Aqualink or the heater? If it is the heater then I need to reconnect the Aqualink wire to complete this test, correct? I am not sure where the relay is for the heater on either board.

 

[1poolman1]

I do know how to use a multimeter to check continuity so we have that issue covered . Also pretty sure I am using the controls correctly, both with the iaqualink and when I put the Aqualink panel at the pool in service mode and hit the heater button. Some questions: Which board am I testing--the Aqualink or the heater? If it is the heater then I need to reconnect the Aqualink wire to complete this test, correct? I am not sure where the relay is for the heater on either board.

Many times the Aqualink will display "Water Sensor OK" when it really isn't. With the system running, what is the water-temperature reading on the display? Is it close to the real temperature? When a sensor goes bad, it will many times read a very high temperature that won't allow the Jandy to run the heater. The other error that it might show, besides "open" is "shorted." If there is any temperature reading the system "thinks" the sensor is "OK."
These aftermarket sensors work well and are very much less than OEM. Its an inexpensive repair.

Amazon.com

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

I have replaced both of the sensors in the past. The temperatures (both air and pool water) look accurate and were both in the 60s today, well below the temperature set point for heating the pool or hot tub. So I am thinking we are down to the wire and the board. How do I test to determine which one it is? The wire has a small nick in it. Doesn't look like the inner jacket is impacted but it might be. Have a new board on order but would prefer not to install until last resort (as it is really hard to uninstall without breaking the clips).

 

[ajw22]

Which board am I testing--the Aqualink or the heater?

Page 19 in https://cdn.fluidrausa.com/-/media/...6594.pdf?rev=3f92f6e6f59644fabc5e86b3630b8935

If it is the heater then I need to reconnect the Aqualink wire to complete this test, correct?

If the relay opens and closes then test or just replace the wire.

The MasterTemp Installation Manual specifies to use 18 gauge wire with a minimum 3/64” (1.2mm) thick insulation rated for a temperature rise of at least 105°C. The area the wire passes through can get hot and melt wire insulation.

I am not sure where the relay is for the heater on either board.

No relay on the heater.

 

[ajw22]

So I am thinking we are down to the wire and the board. How do I test to determine which one it is?

Test if the heater relay is opening and closing properly.

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

Thanks. Looks like you gave me instructions for the wire replacement. Once I open up the Aqualink is it easy to determine which relay is the heater--follow the wire connected under the heater button to where it is connected to power in the relay section below? If I remember right there is a little pin on the bottom that should go up if the relay is working when the heater button is pushed in (and there is power). Thinking I can also test for continuity when the power is off by connecting the meter to the two screws.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks. Looks like you gave me instructions for the wire replacement. Once I open up the Aqualink is it easy to determine which relay is the heater--follow the wire connected under the heater button to where it is connected to power in the relay section below? If I remember right there is a little pin on the bottom that should go up if the relay is working when the heater button is pushed in (and there is power). Thinking I can also test for continuity when the power is off by connecting the meter to the two screws.

Your heater uses no relay unless someone wired it that way for some weird reason (I've seen it done), or unless it is wired to the #1 pump relay. That relay is always for a pump, but it can actuate with a VSP in the system and may be used to power the heater for some strange reason. Usually the heater should be connected to a breaker, powered continually so the cool-down in the heater can work after the pump shuts down or the heater shuts off. A picture of the entire wiring would be a great help in identifying this.

 

[ajw22]

You guys are getting confused between the high voltage relays that a heater usually do not use and the fireman’s switch relay on the board. This heater is connected to the fireman’s switch relay.

Be clear which one you are discussing and testing.

 

[kipthomsonkaty1]

So what you are saying is that I need to test the fireman switch relay. Right now I have the two yellow wires at the bottom of this switch connected with a wire nut and the wires from the Jandy are not connected (which allowed me run the heater from its control). What do I need to do to test the fireman switch?