PB says I should run at 2600 RPM's

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It upsets me greatly to see a PB or any other person or company try to snowball their customers because they lack the personal integrity to own up to a problem.

Your PB is flat out lying to you, and he either knows it, or knows nothing about pools.

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Brent,
here is a do it your self suction side leak test.

Get yourself some old timey white foamy shaving cream, the kind that puffs up when you spray it into your hand. None of that gel type stuff.

Spray the shaving cream all around the pump lid. Around every above ground coupling, valve and fitting and around where the suction pipe enters the pump.
If there is the smallest leak, it will suck in the shaving cream.
 
Just remember this is the same guy that told you it was ok to fire up the fire bowls without any glass beads or water, and you know how that turned out. The symptoms you describe are classic suction side air leak. You can troubleshoot it yourself and then have them repair the problem area. I would start with making sure the drain plug on the pump strainer pot is finger tight, and the pump strainer lid 0-ring has silicone pool lube on it. This video is a good demonstration of how to find a suction side air leak. Find an air leak in your swimming pool. - YouTube
 
I too don’t understand their lack of knowledge. Any pump, regardless of in ground or above ground should never lose its water when either the lid is opened or the pump is turned off. It’s one continual loop, full of water, so if when shut off, the water rushes out the intake, that water gets replaced by water that’s still in the lines. Only a suction side air leak can cause this. I believe this is why all VS pumps ramp up to top speed for priming? It removes any air in the suction side and fills the basket completely, then when the speed lowers, everything on the pressure side has had any air removed. At least that’s how I see it and my two variable speed pumps have zero air bubbles.
 
Pool_Medic said:
Any pump, regardless of in ground or above ground should never lose its water when either the lid is opened
Click to expand...

That is not quite correct because as soon as you open the pump lid, you are allowing air to enter the system which could result in the pump losing water back into the pool etc depending on what plumbing configuration you have.
 
I just went through the same symptoms that you describe. Mine also blew the skimmer cover off when the pump shut down. I accidentally found my leak at a pump shut down and I saw water leaking from a fitting on the suction side of the pump. The back pressure caused by the air leak forced the water out of the defective fitting.
 
So yesterday while turning off the pump, I noticed a new bubble created right at the top part of the pump cover. So I took that off and really cleaned the gasket, cover, and the top of the pump. I used pool lube and reassembled everything. I turned the pump back on and tried the shaving cream trick. I didn't notice any shaving cream getting into the pump. So I turned off the pump overnight and when I went out this morning the pump was still full of water. So I am guessing the issue was not getting 100% of debris out from the gasket and cover. At this time I have the pump at 1810 rpms which is enough to get my SWG working. I things start going wrong again, I will try the water hose trick from the link provided earlier. Also I will swap the pool pump cover and the water feature pump cover since they are the same VSF pump. This way I can see if the issue follows the cover or not. Thank you all.
 
Most VS pumps build a bit of air under the strainer cover eventually. I have mine to run a minute long higher RPM at start up that clears it.

Seems like you need to run your pump RPM quite high to close the IC40 flow switch. Mine is 1500 RPM. Heaters typically cause that, plus some installers to do not have the full 12" of straight pipe before the SWCG. That can really mess it up.

Take care.
 
mknauss said:
Most VS pumps build a bit of air under the strainer cover eventually. I have mine to run a minute long higher RPM at start up that clears it.

Seems like you need to run your pump RPM quite high to close the IC40 flow switch. Mine is 1500 RPM. Heaters typically cause that, plus some installers to do not have the full 12" of straight pipe before the SWCG. That can really mess it up.

Take care.
Click to expand...
Now I have had to creep up the RPM's to 2150 to get enough flow going.
 

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mknauss said:
Most VS pumps build a bit of air under the strainer cover eventually. I have mine to run a minute long higher RPM at start up that clears it.

Seems like you need to run your pump RPM quite high to close the IC40 flow switch. Mine is 1500 RPM. Heaters typically cause that, plus some installers to do not have the full 12" of straight pipe before the SWCG. That can really mess it up.

Take care.
Click to expand...
There is at least 12" of pipe before the SWG. I am wondering if the raised spa is giving me a clue to what the issue is. Here is what I mean by that, I when the SWG flow switch is red even at 2150 RPM's, I turn the pump to 3000 for a few minutes. This allows the spa to overflow into the pool. At that point I can reduce the pump back to 2150 and the SWG flow light is green again. Not sure exactly how long, but the flow switch will turn red after awhile. I still do not want to run it at that high rpm's. I did put in a case just now to Pentair for their input too. Also, Pentair did email me back about not agreeing with the PB on the 2600 rpm's.
 
Why is there a check valve on one of the pool returns?

The check valve goes on the spa return.

With the pictured configuration, do you get spa spillover at low rpm?

The check valve to the right looks cloudy. Is the flow arrow pointing the right way? The feeder might be damaging the valve if there are tabs in the feeder.

Are you using the tab feeder? If the feeder contains tabs, water should always be flowing through the return line or concentrated chlorine will migrate and destroy everything it comes in contact with.

I would remove the feeder. It's nothing but trouble.

What is the filter pressure at different rpms?

What happens if the pool returns are open?

What happens with pool suction and spa suction open?

Check the cell for scaling debris clogging the screen.

Something is definitely wrong. The flow switch should close at about 1,200 rpm.

The VSF pump can tell you the system pressure and flow rate. What does the pump show for those values?
 
JamesW said:
Why is there a check valve on one of the pool returns?

The check valve goes on the spa return.

With the pictured configuration, do you get spa spillover at low rpm?

The check valve to the right looks cloudy. Is the flow arrow pointing the right way? The feeder might be damaging the valve if there are tabs in the feeder.

Are you using the tab feeder? If the feeder contains tabs, water should always be flowing through the return line or concentrated chlorine will migrate and destroy everything it comes in contact with.

I would remove the feeder. It's nothing but trouble.

What is the filter pressure at different rpms?

What happens if the pool returns are open?

What happens with pool suction and spa suction open?

Check the cell for scaling debris clogging the screen.

Something is definitely wrong. The flow switch should close at about 1,200 rpm.

The VSF pump can tell you the system pressure and flow rate. What does the pump show for those values?
Click to expand...

1. No clue on only one check valve and only that one return.
2. No spillover at low rpm's. I have to get it over 2000 to get that going.
3. Which exact arrow and yes I do have tabs in there and just turned it back on to "5", which is full open since I am always at .5 of FC. I did that until I can get the SWG producing enough so I can turn that back off.
4. The only thing I see the chlorinated water getting in contact with is the one handled valve and the check valve before going to the pool.
5. I will leave the feeder at this time since I can close the valve on it.
6. Pressure I will have to go out and get that info.
7. When the pool valve is open, I get water flowing to the pool. Looking at the picture, I believe it was on spa mode. The "OFF" tab on the valve is towards the pool return so everything should be going to the spa.
8. I don't think I can have both pool and spa suction both open at the same time. When I hit the "V" button on the automation box, both the suction valve and the return valves rotate 180* to either spa mode or pool mode. I will take updated picture today. I am not sure if it was fully synced when I took that picture.
9. Scaling even at maybe six weeks since startup?
10. Thanks for the help.
 
It looks like you're pulling only from the pool and returning only to the spa. So, if you're not getting spillover, you're not getting any flow.

It looks like it's in spillover mode.

You should have pool mode, spa mode and spillover mode.

Something is definitely wrong.

The pool builder should take care of it and not just tell you to increase the pump speed.

With the check valve where it is, I suspect that the plumbing is mixed up somehow. I would go through every line and verify where it goes.

The clear cover of the check valve has an arrow that should be pointing down.

If the feeder has tabs and there is no flow going through the pipe that it's connected to, chlorine is going to get out and begin destroying everything it comes in contact with regardless if the feeder is set to off or not.
 
I looked for that. As far as I can tell, the filter plumbing is ok.

I do think that the suction or returns might be mixed up. The check valve is in the wrong place, so that points to a problem.

The flow should still be better than what it is.

The filter pressure would help diagnose the issue. Maybe a really dirty filter. Maybe a clogged screen at the inlet to the cell.

The pump can show actual flow and total system pressure, so that would really help to diagnose as well.
 

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