Got it. Yes don't want any explosions happening. Just thinking out loud hear (please correct me if I'm wrong), what if I had the VSP connected to the timer but remove the "on" "off" switches from them so that the timer, and pump, is running continuously. If I tied the SWJ to the same terminals on that timer then whenever the timer loses power, both the VSP and SWG would turn off.
Parallel RJ60+
- Thread starter loamyroots
- Start date
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You can have a pump failure with the timer still functioning. That is why I chose the current sensing relay. If there is no power to the pump (pump failed), there is no power to the cell.
Based on our pool inspection report, it states that we have 4 skimmers with 8 returns. I'll have to check when I get home but I think there are 2 main drains as well. The report states that there is a crack at the valve collar of the shallow end main drain which I believe is the one on the left.
Ah ok, is there a specific current sensing relay you recommend?
I'm somewhat familiar with them as I had to replace the failed current sensing relay for our HVAC's humidifier over the winter (same principle: wanted the humidifier to run only when the fan's blower was running).
I'm somewhat familiar with them as I had to replace the failed current sensing relay for our HVAC's humidifier over the winter (same principle: wanted the humidifier to run only when the fan's blower was running).
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
There is a model number in the photo of the CSR in the wiki. There are also 3 links in the wiki to CSR installs.
www.troublefreepool.com
SWG How It Works - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
Given the size and configuration of the pad, I'd replace the pumps with VSPs. There is a lot of work to be done to consolidate to one filter. @JoyfulNoise may disagree, but , personally, I'd get two pumps and replace vs. one pump and new filter.
It is probably a toss up between the two. 2 pumps vs. 1 pump plus new filter. If you go to one pump, then get a 500sqft+ cartridge filter.
I would recommend a number of things. The PVC ball valves should all be replace with Jandy/Pentiar/Hayward/CMP diverters. They will be a problem now or later...as you can see from broken valves.
View attachment 633123
I would put a bypass on the heater. You need one.
Heater Bypass - Further Reading
You also have a booster pump that likely a pressure side cleaner.
All connections to pump and filter should be high temp unions Pentair/Hayward/Jandy/CMP all make good unions.
So based on your recommendation, I'm looking to purchase 6 new diverter valves to replace the old PVC ball valves. One already has a crack in its collar so I figured now might be a good time to replace them.
Any difference between the brands? CMP seems to be the cheapest while Jandy are more expensive. We plan on being in this for quite some time so don't mind spending a little extra if it will be worth it in the long term.
CMP
CMP Diverter Valve, 1.5" Socket, 2" Spigot, Gray PVC - 2 Way - INYOPools.com
"Diverter Valve,Hydroseal,1-1/2"",2 Way,1-1/2""skt x 2"" Spg" (25912-154) - Pool & Spa Parts
www.inyopools.com
Pentair
Jandy
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
CMP is a fine brand. I took the mid-route and used Pentair. You can't go wrong with any of these.
@PoolStored @mas985
I was wondering if you guys had any advice on how to replumb my pad. We currently have 4 skimmers with 2 main drains, all split between 2 separate pumps and sand filters. Everything is currently 1 1/2" PVC.
The plan is to install a new variable speed pump (either Triton VST 950 vs Intelliflo3) to replace the prior single speed pumps and install a RJ60+ SWG. I figured I might as well just replumb the entire pad to 2" PVC while I'm at it.
The sand filters have been working well and I was planning on keeping them for awhile longer and doing a deep cleaning of the sand in a few weeks. If you really recommend against keeping the sand filters please let me know and I will consider budgeting for a single large cartridge filter instead.
My current plan is the following:
1) Cut all of the pipes coming up from the ground (for the skimmers and main drain) right before the elbows. Install 1.5" to 2" reducer couplings, 2" 90deg pool sweep elbows, and six 2" diverter valves.
2) Connect the 6 pipes together as a manifold -> one 2" pipe -> high temp union -> VSP
3) 2" pipe exits VSP -> goes to 3-way valve -> feeds the two 27" sand filters in parallel. The 3-way valve would allow me to isolate each filter if necessary for backwashing or servicing. High temp unions placed before and after each sand filter.
4) Keep the existing 1.5" PVC pipes on waste outlet for each sand filter
5) 2" pipe exits the sand filters and join back together
6) 2" pipe -> 3-way valve for heater input + heater bypass -> high temp union -> heater -> high temp union -> check valve-> SWG
I was wondering if you guys had any advice on how to replumb my pad. We currently have 4 skimmers with 2 main drains, all split between 2 separate pumps and sand filters. Everything is currently 1 1/2" PVC.
The plan is to install a new variable speed pump (either Triton VST 950 vs Intelliflo3) to replace the prior single speed pumps and install a RJ60+ SWG. I figured I might as well just replumb the entire pad to 2" PVC while I'm at it.
The sand filters have been working well and I was planning on keeping them for awhile longer and doing a deep cleaning of the sand in a few weeks. If you really recommend against keeping the sand filters please let me know and I will consider budgeting for a single large cartridge filter instead.
My current plan is the following:
1) Cut all of the pipes coming up from the ground (for the skimmers and main drain) right before the elbows. Install 1.5" to 2" reducer couplings, 2" 90deg pool sweep elbows, and six 2" diverter valves.
2) Connect the 6 pipes together as a manifold -> one 2" pipe -> high temp union -> VSP
3) 2" pipe exits VSP -> goes to 3-way valve -> feeds the two 27" sand filters in parallel. The 3-way valve would allow me to isolate each filter if necessary for backwashing or servicing. High temp unions placed before and after each sand filter.
4) Keep the existing 1.5" PVC pipes on waste outlet for each sand filter
5) 2" pipe exits the sand filters and join back together
6) 2" pipe -> 3-way valve for heater input + heater bypass -> high temp union -> heater -> high temp union -> check valve-> SWG
Last edited:
- May 3, 2007
- 18,067
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Everything you have outlined looks ok to me although I would probably not bother with sweeps unless you have the extra room they require. They don't make all that much of a difference anyway. Plus given the parallel nature of the plumbing setup, you might end up with a situation where the head loss is actually too low and could cause some pump issues at higher RPM as the operating point will likely be very close to run out when the heater is bypassed.
If your 2" upgrade is for ease of work then why not but if it's to benefit head loss it won't change anything so why bother.
There's already a mix of 1.5" and 2" pipes in there and now with the new pump and diverter/3-way valves, figured it would just make it easier to have everything be 2".
Ok sounds great, everything should be arriving this week so I'm hoping next weekend to work on this, will keep you updated. Thanks again for all your help!
Ok sounds great, everything should be arriving this week so I'm hoping next weekend to work on this, will keep you updated. Thanks again for all your help!
Hey everyone!
So after getting some feedback from you guys, I'm planning on upgrading my pump to a VSP and adding a SWG this upcoming weekend. There's currently a combination of 1.5" and 2" pipes, old PVC ball valves, lack of any unions, and what seems like excess or dead end plumbing.
The plan is to re-plumb the pad for a more streamline layout and also allow for easy future maintenance of the components.
The existing setup has 2 skimmers and 1 main drain feeding 1 pump and 1 sand filter and another 2 skimmers and another main drain feeding a 2nd pump and 2nd sand filter.
Each sand filter has a pipe exiting out of "Waste", going through a PVC ball valve, and going underground into a flexible PVC pipe which then drains out the back of the yard into the woods. This is the only aspect I was going to leave alone (unless you guys think I should address the ball valves...)
My questions is this:
Each sand filter also has a pipe exiting out the "Outlet" side.
For the 1st sand filter, that pipe then splits into 2 right as it goes underground into flexible PVC. There's a small strange gray PVC pipe that is existing just before this manifold but has been capped off, likely used for something previously.
For the 2nd sand filter, the outlet pipe also splits into 2. One goes underground into flexible PVC. The other when into a Polaris booster pump that I removed. The other end of the Polaris pump went into a pipe that goes underground into flexible PVC.
Am I correct to assume that all of the flexible PVC pipes from both sand filters join together underground and then come back up together right before the heater?
If that's the case, could I just completely get rid of and ignore those underground flexible PVC pipes? Could I instead just create a new set of piping where I connect both sand filters outlets together and from there go straight to the inlet side of the heater?
Sorry for the long post, hopefully I didn't make the situation too confusing.
So after getting some feedback from you guys, I'm planning on upgrading my pump to a VSP and adding a SWG this upcoming weekend. There's currently a combination of 1.5" and 2" pipes, old PVC ball valves, lack of any unions, and what seems like excess or dead end plumbing.
The plan is to re-plumb the pad for a more streamline layout and also allow for easy future maintenance of the components.
The existing setup has 2 skimmers and 1 main drain feeding 1 pump and 1 sand filter and another 2 skimmers and another main drain feeding a 2nd pump and 2nd sand filter.
Each sand filter has a pipe exiting out of "Waste", going through a PVC ball valve, and going underground into a flexible PVC pipe which then drains out the back of the yard into the woods. This is the only aspect I was going to leave alone (unless you guys think I should address the ball valves...)
My questions is this:
Each sand filter also has a pipe exiting out the "Outlet" side.
For the 1st sand filter, that pipe then splits into 2 right as it goes underground into flexible PVC. There's a small strange gray PVC pipe that is existing just before this manifold but has been capped off, likely used for something previously.
For the 2nd sand filter, the outlet pipe also splits into 2. One goes underground into flexible PVC. The other when into a Polaris booster pump that I removed. The other end of the Polaris pump went into a pipe that goes underground into flexible PVC.
Am I correct to assume that all of the flexible PVC pipes from both sand filters join together underground and then come back up together right before the heater?
If that's the case, could I just completely get rid of and ignore those underground flexible PVC pipes? Could I instead just create a new set of piping where I connect both sand filters outlets together and from there go straight to the inlet side of the heater?
Sorry for the long post, hopefully I didn't make the situation too confusing.
Attachments
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You will have to do some testing. If they were joined together, doesn't make sense to split one. It may be the split PVC is one or more returns. Same with the other.
Run the pump on the left and see where you get water back into the pool. Do the same with the right. When you do that, listen with a stethoscope or a tube and feel with your hands to determine when there is water flowing.
How many returns in the pool? Which pump returns to which returns? Which pump flows water through the heater?
I would figure those out before you abandon and replumb.
Run the pump on the left and see where you get water back into the pool. Do the same with the right. When you do that, listen with a stethoscope or a tube and feel with your hands to determine when there is water flowing.
How many returns in the pool? Which pump returns to which returns? Which pump flows water through the heater?
I would figure those out before you abandon and replumb.
Last edited:
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,068
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would not make that assumption.
Heaters have a maximum flow rate that two pumps can easily exceed.
You need to map out exactly how the pipes run.
Hmm yeah I had a feeling you guys were going to say that. I just find it strange - wouldn't that mean that filtered water is returning back to the pool without going through the heater? Wouldn't that take it longer to heat the pool?
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
We moved into our home late summer so I didn't get a good chance to really understand the system while it was operating. It's currently covered but if I remember correctly, there are 6 returns. The pump on the left I think fed 3 returns (2 shallow and 1 middle) and the pump on the right fed the other 3 returns (2 deep and 1 middle).
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,884
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You need to test. It would follow that the pump on the right feeds the heater with 2 returns in the deep and 1 in the shallow.
Confirm everything....
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,068
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The heater puts out a fixed amount of BTUs (heat) as long as you have the minimum flow rate through the heater.
Having more flow does NOT give more heat.
You only need the flow of one pump to move the heat from the heater into the pool.