Our newly constructed gunite pool has shifted!

[Sarah_K]

Did you read through what was done to fix this pool?

Need urgent help with cracking/leaking pool on a hillside in Austin, TX!

We did hire an engineer and he wants us to make a hole from the center of the pool to the bottom of the outside wall but I am not sure who I hire to do that?!? He said this will give us a good cross section of the construction thru the crack. ... Any ideas on who I would hire to make the hole...

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, thank you for sharing! Our pool design is quite different, but looks like that particular pool owner had good luck with adding piers for additional support! Maybe that will be an option for us as well.

 

[Sarah_K]

The earlier you catch the problem and apply a fix, the better it is.

The farther the pool gets out of level, the harder it is to fix easily.

At this point, they might be able to relevel by redoing the coping and tile, but it is hard to tell.

The stability needs to be assessed and addressed and some sort of engineered supports might be indicated.

I don't think a full demo and redo is going to be necessary, but you really need a qualified engineer to assess and advise.

It's always more difficult to engineer a solution to fix a problem than it would be to engineer the structure correctly in the first place.

What about the strain on the plumbing? The vacuum line has already broken. How would redoing the coping and tile help prevent further plumbing issues? This would just be a cosmetic fix, correct? Thanks for talking through this with me, I appreciate it! Will definitely be getting an engineer involved.

 

[JamesW]

The plumbing might need to be redone if it is considered to be compromised.

A thorough assessment is needed to figure out what needs to be done.

 

[ajw22]

The engineer first needs to determine the root cause for the settling. Was the pool overdug and backfilled with the gunite shell put on unstable soil instead of undisturbed ground? Or is the settling due to your local soil conditions?

Only once you know how to get the pool sitting on stable ground will you know what the fix should be.

The fact that your pool shows no signs of cracking may indicate the gunite shell was constructed well and the entire shell can be stabilized.

 

[Reubzy]

Good advice, thank you!

Hey Sarah, I’ve gained a lot of advice from this forum and spotted your post which might give me an opportunity to give back!

I’m a civil engineer from Brisbane, Australia so I may have something to contribute here (not a pool specialist though sorry!).

To be honest the could be a number of reasons you are experiencing these issues and it looks that the most likely would be pressure from the ground moving your pool resulting in the tilt/failed vacuum/cracking.

Everyone has great advice here but they’ve moved a little too far down the rabbit hole. The solutions to fix this issue are likely of a large scale, quite complex and very expensive. Before doing your own engineering or investigation my advice would be to absolutely start hammering your contractor and threaten to take them to the regulatory body (unsure what it’s called there) that handles general construction contracts and small claims.

This is their issue, not yours and make it their issue every single day through phone calls and emails. Great advice above to get any responses or discussions regarding their planned remediation in writing.

 

[JamesW]

Before doing your own engineering or investigation my advice would be to absolutely start hammering your contractor and threaten to take them to the regulatory body (unsure what it’s called there) that handles general construction contracts and small claims.

That's all well and good and they should begin to put pressure on the company by getting various organizations involved.

The company seems to be trying to minimize the problem and ignore it.

If they are saying that it's not a big deal, you need your own professional expert on your side to explain exactly what the problem is and what the solution is.

If the company was cooperating, that's one thing, but it seems like they're going to take an adversarial approach and try to avoid responsibility.

Maybe pressure will get their attention and generate a response, but that seems unlikely.

Either way, you need an engineer to figure out the problem as the builder is obviously not qualified to figure it out otherwise the problem would not have happened.

Whether the builder hires the engineer or the customer does, the builder is liable for the costs either way.

 

[Reubzy]

That's all well and good and they should begin to put pressure on the company by getting various organizations involved.

The company seems to be trying to minimize the problem and ignore it.

If they are saying that it's not a big deal, you need your own professional expert on your side to explain exactly what the problem is and what the solution is.

If the company was cooperating, that's one thing, but it seems like they're going to take an adversarial approach and try to avoid responsibility.

Maybe pressure will get their attention and generate a response, but that seems unlikely.

Either way, you need an engineer to figure out the problem as the builder is obviously not qualified to figure it out otherwise the problem would not have happened.

Whether the builder hires the engineer or the customer does, the builder is liable for the costs either way.

I would just say avoid hitting your own engineer until you actually have a proposed solution from the contractor to verify. No point paying until you need it

 

[wireform]

It would be beneficial to gather all your photographs from the actual ground layout all the way to the end of your build perhaps that will give or aid in clues of what's happening.

 

[JohnT]

I will point out that you never want to use the words lawyer, court, lawsuit or anything similar with a business unless you are already in the process of taking legal action. Any business that hears those words from a customer should, and probably will, cut off all direct contact with the customer.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

I got into the discussion late so all I’ll add is when I have personally see this situation it was due to one of two conditions, over excavation with improper compaction of the back fill material or two completely different types of soil conditions within the excavated shell that the engineering firm/plan was unaware of and the steel plans did not compensate for. In the small print on the engineering plans will be a section that states a GEO Consultant be hired to confirm that the soil is suitable for construction per the steel Engineering plans prior to starting the excavation.

 

[zea3]

I can't speak to the construction of the pool or its possible repair, but I can add a little about soil and weather. The greater Houston area has clay soil that has a lot of movement on its own. In dry times it can shrink an incredible amount. The summer of 22 was one of the hottest and driest summers we have had in many years. Clay soil also expands a lot when wet. Its like a huge sponge, in fact when the soil is saturated it can be like walking on a wet sponge. The ground "gives" under your feet and little pools of water are briefly visible. This year our unusually dry summer was followed by 2 or 3 significant rain events in the fall.

Something else that has happened in the Houston area is that home builders may raise the elevation of a house site with fill dirt. The fill dirt may or may not be the same type of soil, depending on where it came from. The section of the site the house was constructed on may have been built up but a few feet outside of that foundation footprint the ground would be undisturbed, which may account for a difference in soil stability. Did the foundation of your house move any during the period of time after the pool was built? Since it is an older house did it have any foundation work in the past?

If you took any photos during the pool construction period print them out and label them with the date taken. Document all contact with the builder with the date and time of the contact be it phone or email. If they try to run out the warranty period and you end up going to court, demonstrating when you first contacted them about the problem and subsequent interactions will show you did not wait too long to try to resolve the problem and the company will not be allowed to say, "Too bad warranty is now expired".

I'm sorry you are having these problems and I hope you come to a satisfactory resolution.

 

[tstex]

First, you need to send a CMRReceipt letter of the entire problem and date it to the time you first found the problem and relayed it to the pool builder. This, for legal purposes, establishes an irrefutable timeframe during the current warranty period.

Next, zea about pretty much nailed it. I am willing to make a wager that the problem lies in compacted "clay soil" on the high side and non-compacted clay soil on the low side. As mentioned by zea, Houston had 45 days of triple digit heat and stage 4 drought status. When the subsoils are exposed to that type of heat, it shrinks aggressively. The night time ambient temps this summer were in the mid 80's, 100-107 during the day and very little rain to none. Once the pool was completed, the clay soils were covered and were left dry. Then, we did have some significant rainfalls. If they did not use sand to backfill and supplement the clay soil, then there are huge air pockets all along the walls & bottom of the gunite shell. When the big rains came, the compacted side lifted and the noncompacted side did not have any support to prevent the shell from sinking. The center became the pivot point and that's why it usually cracks there. However, MMGunite is a great company and makes a mean. strong shell, if you used them.

To conclude, this pool will need to be emptied, then leveled by opening the gunite and injecting material that will stabilize the lower end and also attempt to raise it. In doing so, all of the PVC will need to be pressure tested for its integrity, along w a host of other tests.

Finally, my suggestion is not to wait on the PB. This is a very expensive venture and you want to take the offensive, w or w/out the PB's cooperation. I would seek my own structural engr that works on pools and in the Houston/clay/gumbo soil area. Then, get quotes to meet the spec's of correcting the problem and have an atty forward to the PB. You want all your costs covered, so you need an atty to seek consequential damages too.

Sarah, if you can PM me w the PB's company name, I can seek advice [and in confidence] from other pool builders I know to discern the viability and willingness of this PB to correct the problem or not. They definitely need to make this right. If they are not willing, you will need to make them make it right.

 

[Missy_2008]

Hey Sarah, I’ve gained a lot of advice from this forum and spotted your post which might give me an opportunity to give back!

I’m a civil engineer from Brisbane, Australia so I may have something to contribute here (not a pool specialist though sorry!).

To be honest the could be a number of reasons you are experiencing these issues and it looks that the most likely would be pressure from the ground moving your pool resulting in the tilt/failed vacuum/cracking.

Everyone has great advice here but they’ve moved a little too far down the rabbit hole. The solutions to fix this issue are likely of a large scale, quite complex and very expensive. Before doing your own engineering or investigation my advice would be to absolutely start hammering your contractor and threaten to take them to the regulatory body (unsure what it’s called there) that handles general construction contracts and small claims.

This is their issue, not yours and make it their issue every single day through phone calls and emails. Great advice above to get any responses or discussions regarding their planned remediation in writing.

I would be reporting them to the BBB right away. Any time I need major stuff done, I look at the BBB site to see if the chosen contractor has any black marks. I'd assume that they will drag their feet on this so getting an attorney might be a good idea. Even if it's just someone to send a threatening letter. For sure it is not your problem though.

 

[tstex]

@Sarah_K any movement on your situation ?

 

[JamesW]

@Sarah_K any movement on your situation ?

Movement of the pool or of the legal situation?

 

[tstex]

Movement of the pool or of the legal situation?

conversations btw PB and OP...