No skimmer suction and pool return jets not working
- Thread starter johnle15
- Start date
So this is challenging but interesting.
Lets take the suction side. That is the pipe leading into the suction side of the pump.
You have 4 pipes on the left and the one to the right with a 3 way valve in the middle. You have noted the right is the spa suction which would be the drain in the spa. On the left side you marked skimmer. Do you have 3 skimmers? Each of those pipes have a blue valve which you can control if that pipe is open or closed. The 4th pipe (without the valve) must be the main drain in the pool. Please review and confirm.
You have a pipe exiting the pump which goes to a tee with another 3 way valve. The direction to the right - I am not sure where that leads. You have marked Jandy filter but where does the pipe go if you open the valve to that side?
To the left of the 3 way valve the pipe leads to the multiport valve in front of the DE filter. This allows you to backwash the filter or to open to waste to drain the pool. In filter mode, the water goes into the filter and then comes back out to the multiport valve then directed to the heater inlet (that pipe in the back).
Lets stop there and get your feedback on the suction side and flow to the heater on the left and to whatever is the pipe on the right. Do you have an infloor cleaning system or a water feature? Because the flow to the right-side is not going through the main filter it is curious as where that is leading. Maybe give a closeup picture of that device you have marked as Jandy Filter with pressure gauge on top.
Lets take the suction side. That is the pipe leading into the suction side of the pump.
You have 4 pipes on the left and the one to the right with a 3 way valve in the middle. You have noted the right is the spa suction which would be the drain in the spa. On the left side you marked skimmer. Do you have 3 skimmers? Each of those pipes have a blue valve which you can control if that pipe is open or closed. The 4th pipe (without the valve) must be the main drain in the pool. Please review and confirm.
You have a pipe exiting the pump which goes to a tee with another 3 way valve. The direction to the right - I am not sure where that leads. You have marked Jandy filter but where does the pipe go if you open the valve to that side?
To the left of the 3 way valve the pipe leads to the multiport valve in front of the DE filter. This allows you to backwash the filter or to open to waste to drain the pool. In filter mode, the water goes into the filter and then comes back out to the multiport valve then directed to the heater inlet (that pipe in the back).
Lets stop there and get your feedback on the suction side and flow to the heater on the left and to whatever is the pipe on the right. Do you have an infloor cleaning system or a water feature? Because the flow to the right-side is not going through the main filter it is curious as where that is leading. Maybe give a closeup picture of that device you have marked as Jandy Filter with pressure gauge on top.
I have two skimmers one near the spa and the other in the deep end. I believe the 3rd valve is for the suction cleaner (no longer using replaced with robot). My understanding is that the jandy filter is suppose to help reduce the work for the de filter. No infloor cleaning system and the water feature has been disabled by the previous owner.
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For the return side we can address more late but I suggest you need a couple of more pictures at different angles.
What I do see is that as the pipe exits the heater it go to a 3 way valve. That valve is OFF to the left side which appears to be the main pool returns but open to the right side which appears to be to the spa returns.
There is a small switch on the side of the controller. It has 3 positions. The middle position is OFF. Which ever way the switch it, move it to the opposite side and the valve handle should rotate 180 degrees to have OFF facing the spa pipe (to the right) and it will be open to the pool returns (the left side). This may stop your spa overflow into the pool but we can address that later. I am just trying to get the system in what is called POOL Mode. This means suction from the pool (skimmers and main drain) and return to the pool through the chlorinator (that cylinder with 320 written on it).
To identify the others, close 2 of the blue valves - ensure 1 valve remains open - go see which skimmer is sucking water. If none that that is the main drain. Do this again by opening another valve and closing one - always have 1 valve open. Mark the pipes as SS (Shallow Skimmer), DS (Deep Skimmer) and MD (Main Drain).
Let me know if that works.
What I do see is that as the pipe exits the heater it go to a 3 way valve. That valve is OFF to the left side which appears to be the main pool returns but open to the right side which appears to be to the spa returns.
There is a small switch on the side of the controller. It has 3 positions. The middle position is OFF. Which ever way the switch it, move it to the opposite side and the valve handle should rotate 180 degrees to have OFF facing the spa pipe (to the right) and it will be open to the pool returns (the left side). This may stop your spa overflow into the pool but we can address that later. I am just trying to get the system in what is called POOL Mode. This means suction from the pool (skimmers and main drain) and return to the pool through the chlorinator (that cylinder with 320 written on it).
My guess is that this pipe that is to the right of the valve on exit of pump that goes through the small Jandy filter is your circulation to the water feature. That small filter just kept debris out of the water feature. I could not see the water feature in your picture of the pool. I see that the valve handle at the tee junction from the pump is OFF on the right side so all flow is going to the left - the main Hayward filter. The flow to the water feature is OFF. I also see a small blue valve at the ground level on that water feature pipe. It is open. I would leave it open. I assume they put a valve there so they could control the amount of flow going to the water feature.
Once you adjusted the return side as noted in first paragraph above we can work on the suction side. So to identify which is which, you have 4 pipes, all with blue valves. 2 valves are fully open and 1 is partially open and the 4th (the one facing to the side) is closed. Is the one that is fully closed the cleaner?
To identify the others, close 2 of the blue valves - ensure 1 valve remains open - go see which skimmer is sucking water. If none that that is the main drain. Do this again by opening another valve and closing one - always have 1 valve open. Mark the pipes as SS (Shallow Skimmer), DS (Deep Skimmer) and MD (Main Drain).
Let me know if that works.
Interesting development as I was working through the process. This rag came into the pump basket as I was going through this. Deep skimmer little to no suction. The water feature is the large rectangular concrete box behind the spa which was converted into a planter. As you suspected the overflow from the spa to the pool has stopped.
V (SC)
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V(DS) -----V(MD)-----V(SS)
V (SC)
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V(DS) -----V(MD)-----V(SS)
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Well at least the rag came out and was captured by your pump basket. So are both your skimmers now have proper suction? You may want to adjust the blue valve handle on either one that you wish to have less suction vs. the other. Something you can play around with as you learn more about wind direction, etc. I would leave the Main Drain partially open (like it was in your first photo). This way you always have some suction from bottom. It is common to have the valves set for 10-20% open for main drain and 80-90% open to the skimmers.
You now know what is Pool Mode. This is suction from the skimmers & main drain with returns flowing through the main filter, heater and through the chlorinator to the return outlets along sides of your pool. How many returns do you have in the pool and are all pushing water out?
SPA mode will be suction from the spa drain and return to the spa - but it will not spill over into the pool. To accomplish this the valve on the suction will close off the side to the skimmers/main drain and open to the spa drain. On the return, it will close to the pool returns and open to the spa returns. How many return outlets do you have in the spa? Do they all push out water?
I have not asked but you have automated valves so what is your automation system and is this working? If so, there should be buttons that may indicate Pool Mode or Spa Mode.
We still need to address some of the additional pipes on the return side but suggest you post some more pictures from different angles.
Really appreciate the help to better understand my pool and what's happening. The deep skimmer has little to no suction. I'll try adjust the other valves to see if I can get any suction going. I have 4 returns in the pool and they are all working. 8 jets in the spa are working as well.
Yes, I have Pentair easytouch automation system which I connect with through the iPhone screenlogic app.
Posting some additional angles of the return side. Previously, when in spa mode the spa would drain and not push out warm water when heating.
Yes, I have Pentair easytouch automation system which I connect with through the iPhone screenlogic app.
Posting some additional angles of the return side. Previously, when in spa mode the spa would drain and not push out warm water when heating.
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So the SPA suction is open but not the return.
With your automation you should have a button that says Pool Mode and another for Spa Mode. Press one of these and then go look at your equipment pad. In Pool Mode the automate valve handle should be facing to the skimmers and main drain piping and the word OFF facing the spa suction pipe. On the return side (going back to the pool), the valve handle should be facing to the pool returns (the pipe with the inline Chlorinator) and the word OFF facing the Spa return pipe.
If not, then hit that little switch on the valve that is not right so it moves 180 degrees.
Now hit SPA mode and both valves should rotate 180 degrees with the word OFF facing the pool suction pipes and the pool return pipes.
Let me know if that worked.
That worked. Everything seems to be working as it suppose to be working. Thank you again for the helpful responses.
That is great!!!!!
I am curious about a couple of pipes on your return side that we did not discuss because they are both isolated (closed off). Just would like to know what they go to.
You have the automated valve and we have defined the pipe to the right goes to the spa return. Then to the left it goes to the inline chlorinator and to the pool return. But there is a Tee junction and that other pipe (the one shown running along side the heater) with the blue valve handle turned closed. Where does that lead to?
Also, after the flow goes past the inline chlorinator it turns down which goes to the pool return outlets. However, there is a tee junction there as well that goes to another blue valve handle that is turned closed. Where does that lead to?
As I said, I am just curious because it is something you do not see all the time unless there are numerous water features. Thanks. and Good Luck with your pool. Follow the TFP methodology and you will be very pleased.
I went about turning the valves and didn’t notice any difference in the pool returns. I can only assume it led to the water feature that was converted to a planter box and no longer in use.
Well, I was hoping one of those pipes led to the spa. I am thinking that when you are in Pool mode - as discussed above - you have no flow to the spa. However, if one of those pipes leads to a spa return, then it will fill the spa and it will overflow into the pool. This would be your spillover feature. You wouldn't want to run it all the time, but it would be nice to create that spillover. I am thinking it most likely would be the smaller diameter pipe - the one with the blue valve under the inline chlorinator.
You mentioned earlier that you had 8 jets in the Spa and all where working. Well if they only have water flow when in Spa Mode then that is probably all you got. But I was thinking you may have an extra return in the spa. For example, in my spa, I have 6 jets that flow when in Spa Mode. But I have 1 small return (actually under the step) that can flow only when in Pool Mode. This fills my Spa and creates my spillover to the pool. I was hoping one of those pipes did that for your pool. But as you said, they could have been plumbed to a water feature no longer functional.
Regardless, I am happy we got you to a point where you can control Spa and Pool modes.
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