Newbie Intro and Possible build-Cincinnati Ohio

[todd.brock]

Hello all,
My name is Todd Brock. I live in Cincinnati Ohio. I am looking at having a pool installed for the 2018 season.

I have learned quite a bit on this website in the week and a half that I have been looking. I have also found that it appears that you do not just call the pool company, have them dig a hole and put some water in it. So now I’m lost in all of the differences between brands (Pentair, Hayward, Jandy) and all of the different chlorination options, automation and essential features.

I have received rough quotes from a total of 3 PB ( see- I’m learning!). I am primarily focused on one pool builder who I have received information, has been to the house and provided a quotation. I was wondering if you guys could give me some feedback on this quote?

1. 18 x 36 free form Gemini pool package.
-Includes Hayward pump and filter ( zeolite glass media) equipment,
- standard excavation ,
-rough grading plumbing,
-drain,
- salt water generator,
-400 sq ft of concrete,
-DV 5000 cleanse,
- mesh safety cover as well as an LED light.

This does not include electric, or permits.

Extras -
1. excavation for a retaining wall,not the wall itself just the excavation.

2 four deck four fountains,

3. Rheem 115 K heat pump.

4. for a Hayward max flow variable speed pump.
5. Vinyl over steps and a bench on each side of the steps.
6. Concrete cantilever coping
7. Coverstar Auto cover
8. Additional concrete is extra.


I don’t have specific models of the equipment. I really thought you just called a guy and they put in a pool. I have no idea what’s better or worse brand wise. am I heading down the wrong path, any thing that I just have to have?

The PB has been a great resource so far, I just have to research everything for myself until I’m comfortable

I would appreciate any and all feedback!

 

[todd.brock]

Hi all- here are some pics of my back yard.
We added the back deck and porch 2 years ago. Still haven’t decided on a ceiling material.

The 5 trees in the center of yard will have to come down.

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: Newbie Intro and Possible build-Cincinnati Ohio

Hi Todd and welcome to TFP! It's okay to list quotes and prices, just leave the actually name of the installer out of the info. I'm sure you'll receive lots of advice from members. Nice to have you with us.

 

[kimkats]

Re: Newbie Intro and Possible build-Cincinnati Ohio

HI! Goody! I get to help another pool! You have a million questions? Well I have a million answers!

Lets get started! Lets list out what your PBs have quoted you so far. Do it in list form please. That will help us go down it and really look at it.

It is VERY important you have model numbers for your equipment. As you are learning there are many different sizes and kinds. We want to make sure you get what your pool needs for the long term.

You can also share a pic of where the pool is going to help us know what you are dealing with.

Kim

 

[Texas Splash]

I like that backyard. A pool will look right at home there.

 

[todd.brock]

Thanks! We live in typical suburbia. A few more neighbors around us than I would like, but that’s what tall bushes are for!

Kim- I re-formatted all the details in the first post. Hopefully that makes things a little easier to read.

 

[kimkats]

-Includes Hayward pump and filter ( zeolite glass media) equipment,The zeolite glass has been found to not be worth the extra costs. It does not work any better than sand and most end up replacing it with sand after a while

- standard excavation Make sure you know what "standard" means. Get it in writing

-rough grading plumbing What does this mean?

-drain What kind of drain?

- salt water generator What brand and size?

-400 sq ft of concrete How will be it be finished? How much if you want more?

-DV 5000 cleanse What is this?

- mesh safety cover as well as an LED light Again brands for both of these

Have you figured in the cost of a new fence to replace the 4 board fence? Check into the rules in your area for pool fencing.

This should keep you busy for alittle while LOL

Kim

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Hi there Todd....what a gorgeous yard and deck you've built. A pool will only add more gorgousness! I can only dream of grass that pretty.

Skip the glass media and go with sand, if a sand filter is what you want.

Get a bit more cement around the pool to separate the pool from that grass you'll be mowing. You do NOT want grass/fertilizer to get in the pool as it can really do a number on your chemistry. If limited, get at least 4' is my recommendation. Each pass of the mower you'll want the discharge to aim away from the pool.

Get the variable speed pump... it will be a great improvement.

Skip the PB's robot...we can tell you a few places online that will get you a great Dolphin for a lot less.

So sad you're losing those trees....but necessary. In your area the more sun you can get on that pool the warmer it will get faster.

Your fencing will have to be changed per zoning....a nice taller black aluminum fence would look nice

Consider if you want automation (cha-ching$) or can go with old school and use timers.

Where do you want to put your pool equipment? Will you want to conceal it? In a shed?? Something to think on.....

Keep us posted!!

Maddie

 

[todd.brock]

Kim- I think I got most of my homework done...

Maddie- thanks for the compliments and feedback on the concrete. I will be sure to take that into consideration.

3. Salt Chlorination system- Hayward Aquarite 900. 4 year warranty- 25k gallon unit.

4. Auto Suction pool cleaner- Hayward DV 5000 cleaner.

5. LED light. Is this controllable? Switch colors, etc? Std. light is a std on/off. Could add a light controller. Could add a color wheel for $350 bucks. Hayward came out with a control box that will control a VS pump, lights, heater, from iphone.
Hayward Omni VS. is new, and could run heater, pump, light and valve for deck jets.

6. Deck jets. Controlled by a valve in plumbing area. Could be automated.

7. Upgrade to Max Flow VSP pump. Also have a $300 rebate from Duke Energy.


8. Delete fiberglass step and add vinyl over steel steps and bench-

12. liner upgrade. 27mil option for supermax or duomax liner included in package. Cost Ian $400. If just 27 mil liner but is not in Supermax or duo max line.

13. What, if any, is the warranty period on the install, materials, etc. Lifetime warranty walls, mechanicals 5 year, salt is 4 year and one labor. General one year labor overall from PB for anything except concrete decking.
14. Hayward S244 pro series filter -Maytronics Activate glass media, 24” filter.

The fence has a mesh liner built in. May not be visible. I know I’ll need springs on the gate for auto open and move the latches on the inside.

Equipment will be on back of garage. Panel is in garage and will be easy to runs Sub panel through the wall for all the equipment. PB recommends against pump sheds. heat pump would still be outside and it’s HUGE!
Here is back of house

 

[kimkats]

You have such a pretty yard! Good job on the wire fence on the board fence! That is what I want to do at the front of my property. So nice looking!

Looks like you are dialing in the details. Make sure to get EVERYTHING in writing! What is "standard"? This kind of thing can come back to bite your wallet so....

Kim

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Check to make sure that SWG is rated 2-3x larger than the pool. This will allow you to run it the least and extend its lifespan, as well as provide plenty of FC for those hot summer days.

I'd skip the Hayward DV5000 and go with a robot that not only clean, also brushes the walls up to the water line. Cheaper to run also, and saves your filter from all that schmutz. Robots are pretty standard now like a iphone 8, whereas suction cleaners are the flip phones of pool cleaners.

Maddie

 

[bmoreswim]

Also check on your fence. In our jurisdiction (if I'm looking at your fence right) that would not be acceptable. The mesh is ok here, essentially 1" x 2" or close to it. But the wood rails are on the outside of the fence which makes it easily climbable. It would work here if the horizontal members were on the inside of the mesh. Our fence is split rail with a similar mesh so I'm familiar with it here. But of course every jurisdiction is different on their fence (and other) requirements.

 

[todd.brock]

Hey all - thanks for the replies. I believe that I am good on the fence. The counties requirements don’t not explicitly state no outside rails. In fact the fence building guide recommends rails facing out for a “more pleasant neighbor experience”...

Here is all I could figure about about enclosures for my county. I will have to spring load the gates and move the latches to the inside. That should take about an hour.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Well, your inspector will let you know if yours doesn't meet the grade. Just be aware it *may* come up and be prepared to fix it.

Maddie

 

[bmoreswim]

I agree the requirements you show do not mention that. Just to close the loop, and for others to be aware, here is our county's requirement for horizontal fence members. It is clearly a safety concern to have a fence be easily climbable by a 2+ year old from the non-pool side.



Your mention of the horizontal members being on the outside was not in the pool section of the code I'm sure (or I certainly hope not). And in that case, it's always advisable from a good neighbor perspective to put your best face forward/outward. Here (and other places like ours) doing just that sets one up for an expense to be pool compliant and to have that extra layer of safety.

I know that safety discussions can get uncomfortable sometimes, so I'm won't mention any more and I hope I don't come off in a negative way.

 

[todd.brock]

No worries about being uncomfortable!! I appreciate the cOncern! I never would have thought of that. In reality though, instead of totally rebuilding my fence, I would most likely put another layer of wire mesh on the outside to cover up the rails. That would in effect be the same as if rails were on the “inside” I guess. So if it went mesh, then post , then rail. The child would have to climb the mesh to get up. If I put another row of mesh, , the child would still have to climb the mesh. I spent a long summer clearing brush and putting up that fence. Would hate to take it down and have to redo it. But if that’s what would make it safe, I’m all for it.


Ok- so the builder gave me a few more updates. 1.5” pipe unless 2” is necessary, Deck Jets work on the same pump , but have a separate shut off. He recommended
, but did not give me a price yet for the Hayward VS Omni system to run pump, lights, heater and an auto valve for the deck jets. Any feedback on this basic automation system?

We want an extra 12x12 or so pad for a gazebo type thing plus extra concrete all the way around. It just makes more sense than stamped. I figure we could stain the concrete for a “custom” touch.

The PB is working on the 3D rendering. We are supposed to meet later this week to see it. Hopefully all goes well.

 

[kimkats]

Todd, any way you could take the wire off this side and put it on that side? Save you a couple of dimes that way. BUT I do like the idea of it being on both sides to slow down kids on either side.

Safety to the max is the best all around!

Kim

 

[PoolGate]

I would go cartridge filter. Just personal preference but it is easier maintenance with cartridge.

Decide what you want your heater for. To maintain heat during the season or to extend your season. If extension is what you are after, you'll need a gas heater.

I suggest stone marking your deck instead of stamping. You'll save a ton and it looks very good (see my sig pics). It costs around $1/sq foot extra that regular concrete.

What about the number of skimmers and number of returns? How deep will the pool be? Have you gotten any gunite quotes? I would go with 2" plumbing everywhere.

 

[todd.brock]

Hey Kim,

The wire was actually put between the posts and rails. I would have to disassemble the entire fence to move. That’s why I was thinking the second roll of wire on the outside as an easier , cost effective, possibly code compliant solution

Pool Gate,

The builder said he preferred sand filters with the glass media b/c they didn’t have to be cleaned as often.

Regarding the heater. I want to extend the season from May to end of September. I have been told The Heat Pump, while slow and steady will accomplish this. Is that not the case?

I don’t really know how many drains and returns. I’m new to the pool building world. I assume it’s one big drain at the deep end? I am relying on the PB to spec what’s needed. Should I request a specific number of drains? Sorry/ I guess I don’t know enough to ask these types of questions yet.

The PB did state 2” inch pipe would be used if the complexity and volume required it. The pump will be 25-30 feet away. Could that possibly warrant the need for 2” inch? He seemed to think it was a judgement call. I can spec it and probably be charged for the additional pipe, but I guess I don’t really know why I would need it if the pool builder doesn’t think that it’s necessary for flow and GPM. I presume there are calculations that take gallons, head size, etc into account. Is more just better in this case?

The builder got a little confusing about changing depth. something about changing it to a non-diving pool and increases or decreases the liability, I can’t remember which. He said if I made the deep end 6 feet deep then I could make the shallow end 4 feet deep. But then he started talking about the non-diving pool liability and I was getting a little confused. The standard package has walls that are 42 inches tall in the shallow end. He said figure about 36 to 38” depth of water. My kids are young so I’m good with that. The deep end is 8 ft.

I did not get any gunite quotes as I assumed vinyl would be more cost effective.


I have not heard of stone marking the concrete. I will check it out!

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[mknauss]

The builder said he preferred sand filters with the glass media b/c they didn’t have to be cleaned as often.

Not sure about that. You backwash when the pressure rises 25% over clean pressure.

Sand will work just as well.