Newb OB with BYOP in Buckeye AZ - Completion and wrap up

We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Maybe the OCLT passes with flying colors.
 
Why are you in a rush?
Not rushing, just looking ahead and trying to read up and learn before I decide to take any other steps. Although I would like to get the SWG running as soon as I can have the chemistry right.

We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Maybe the OCLT passes with flying colors.
I did an OCLT a couple other times. Both times I get a FC drop of 1. The first OCLT (Tue/Wed) dropped 1.5, the next one (Thurs/Fri) dropped 1 and the third one (Sat/Sun) dropped 1.

Tomorrow will complete 3 weeks since filling.
I was brushing twice daily for the first seven days and will continue once daily from day 8 to 30. I have cleaned the skimmer baskets (and replaced the hairnets) weekly. Side note, I was wondering if a number of bugs caught in the skimmer basket could be consuming chlorine overnight but it didn’t seem to make a difference when I cleaned them.

I feel I have been moderately successful with the bicarb startup. If anyone wants to look at my poolmath logs and provide any feedback/advice I’d love to hear it! Particularly interested in any comments from @bdavis466, @onBalance, @ajw22, and @Newdude. The four of you have been extremely helpful as I learn and get the pool up and running. Your patience with me and support has been nothing less than
Awesome Sean Penn GIF


I think it’s time to start adjustments to get ready to start up the SWG. Any comments to the contrary?

I’ve read the following

Should I simply follow these?

By the way, if I’m reading the first one correctly it has different target ranges in the text compared to the end of the article where it summarizes them (I.e. values in text says CYA target of 70-80 and where summarized at the end it says CYA target of 60-90). Which should I follow? Suggest to whoever maintains the article to correct it to be consistent.
 
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I did an OCLT a couple other times. Both times I get a FC drop of 1. The first OCLT (Tue/Wed) dropped 1.5, the next one (Thurs/Fri) dropped 1 and the third one (Sat/Sun) dropped 1.
Yeah. But we still have a week to go. *that* one will be the one that matters. Its kinda like failing practice tests.
Side note, I was wondering if a number of bugs caught in the skimmer basket could be consuming chlorine overnight
Anything fresh such as polled or brown leaves that just fell, or still alive like bugs or green leaves won't make the slightest dent. Now. If a rotten branch falls in the pool that's all decaying already...... then maybe. Or the leaves that blow in over the off season and have a chunk of time to fester. Mine could be festering for 6 months for example. They'd matter at that point.
different target ranges in the text compared to the end of the article where it summarizes them
We are giving global advice. You'll need more CYA in AZ than someone in Toronto. For you, you can start at 70 when the time comes and increase 10 at a time if the FC isn't holding well. After a couple seasons, you'll just know you need 90 by June 1st. (Etc). Being your fisrt season, we need to learn how your pool responds on the fly.
I think it’s time to start adjustments to get ready to start up the SWG. Any comments to the contrary?
We need to OCLT and possibly SLAM first because raising the CYA requires it. Get to the 30 days first. It might be ok to start now, but you'll have a decade or more to kick yourself that you couldn't wait a week. I get it. Believe me I do. Hang tight for now. :)

Adding salt is easy and not affected by anything else. You can work on it mid slam if you'd like.
 
Thanks @Newdude and @onBalance.

So my marching orders for now through day 30 are to
  • target pH to be between 7.2 and 7.6 (per the NPC plaster start up guide)
  • keep FC up around 6 (not dropping below 4).
  • brush daily. I ordered a vacuum brush and hose and will start vacuuming as needed. I should have ordered that earlier to clean up some of the dust and misc aggregate, plaster, and glass beads. Would have worked a lot better than using the silt net on the pole.
  • Test for FC and pH daily and for TA every 2-3 days (hoping acid will bring TA down to 90) in the next 9 or so days.
  • Should I be targeting a particular CSI Range during this short time?
Does this seem about right?

Should I be doing anything else yet to start moving towards the min CH level of 350?
I was thinking I could move CH up some if I stop filling with softened water and use city water for a period of time. Is that worth doing?
 
Thanks for your comment @onBalance, I think I am too literal with targets for various guidance. The SWG startup page says to have CH at min 350. My last test was 325, so close enough.

I forgot that CH will climb as the plaster ages and the only way to reduce CH is a partial drain and refill (and I want to avoid that as long as possible).

Separate question as I ponder ongoing operation. My fill water tested TA at 110. From what I read the target range should be 50-90. Will I forever be adding acid? Should I be thinking about an intellichem?
 
My last test was 325, so close enough.
Preach. There is a one drop variance and also levels will fluctuate a little. Close enough is close enough.
I forgot that CH will climb as the plaster ages and the only way to reduce CH is a partial drain and refill (and I want to avoid that as long as possible
You'll get a feel for how yours responds, and you'll adapt to it. We ride together and got you throughout. :)
Should I be thinking about an intellichem?
It helps the addition chore, but you still have to buy, lug and pour the jugs. Now. If it produced MA in the backyard like the SWG does for FC, I'd be buying one.
 
It helps the addition chore, but you still have to buy, lug and pour the jugs. Now. If it produced MA in the backyard like the SWG does for FC, I'd be buying one.
I'm a fan of the Intelli-Ph I have. It turned a multiple time a week chore into a once a month or every 6 weeks chore. Once the dose is dialed in, it's as simple as filling the tank and verifying PH is staying where I want it during normal testing.
 

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I'm a fan of the Intelli-Ph I have. It turned a multiple time a week chore into a once a month or every 6 weeks chore. Once the dose is dialed in, it's as simple as filling the tank and verifying PH is staying where I want it during normal testing.
How long have you had it? How much acid is your pool consuming? Have you replaced the pump head tube yearly?

I’m certifiably lazy and forgetful, so I want to reduce my effort as much as reasonably possible. I’m also cheap so I’ll likely stick with adding acid manually for a while until I see what kinda acid diet my pool demands on an ongoing basis once things stabilize.
 
How long have you had it? How much acid is your pool consuming? Have you replaced the pump head tube yearly?

I’m certifiably lazy and forgetful, so I want to reduce my effort as much as reasonably possible. I’m also cheap so I’ll likely stick with adding acid manually for a while until I see what kinda acid diet my pool demands on an ongoing basis once things stabilize.
I’ve had it 4 years or so. Pool eats acid to the tune of about 3 gallons every 6 weeeks, even with a relatively low Alk level (I keep it at 70). I bought it used from eBay and it’s served me well. I replace the pinch tube every spring and had to replace the pump head - but that’s likely because it was a little abused before I got it.
 
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Most pools have upward pressure on pH. The ones that don't are typically fiberglass/vinyl with very soft fill water and large amounts of rainfall.

SWG's, high alkalinity/pH fill water, aeration and cementitious surfaces all contribute to pH rise. I would expect you to need to add acid weekly (at a minimum).
 
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Thanks for the info @Lake Placid. What is driving your acid demand? Aeration, high TA fill water, something else?
I’ve never been able to pinpoint why the high demand. Fill water TA is 60 and I have a very basic pool setup with nothing that would induce a lot of aeration. I suspect it’s a combination of the floor surface and the SWG as well as the 8th wonder of the world buried in my yard that is unbeknownst to me. 😜
 
To be clear, you were inquiring about an intellichem originally. That system is an ORP and PH probe that monitors those two parameters and adjusts/doses chemical accordingly to its readings and set points. TFP doesn’t advocate ORP per se because (in very basic terms) it is essentially a meter that measures conductivity and correlates this reading to an amount of available FC. While I’ve used and still use ORP in commercial settings, it is not a replacement for reliable chlorine testing and in my opinion for a homeowner is just more trouble than it’s worth.

I was describing the “dumb” acid injection system of the IntelliPH that automates acid dosing only. The way it works is that it injects acid every hour routinely for a user specified amount of time (or percentage). It’s basically an on-off relay for a Stenner pump that doses acid for the length of time you tell it.

All that rambling aside if you get serious about dosing acid with the Intelliph you need to go in eyes wide open and know there are potential issues with the system. The split tank is considered “non serviceable” by pentair and if the o-ring fails and it starts leaking they will want to sell you a $300 tank. In fact the tank is serviceable and you can repair the o-ring for about $17 by finding the correct chemical resistant replacement o-ring online.

Secondarily there are known issues with how much amperage the SWG pulls through the control board causing failures. There is a fairly simple fix that I’ve employed and was well conceived and outlined by @Dirk and @ogdento. The thread to my repair is here.

All that said I’d still advocate the system if you have a need for it and want to automate acid dosing.
 
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To be clear, you were inquiring about an intellichem originally. That system is an ORP and PH probe that monitors those two parameters and adjusts/doses chemical accordingly to its readings and set points. TFP doesn’t advocate ORP per se because (in very basic terms) it is essentially a meter that measures conductivity and correlates this reading to an amount of available FC. While I’ve used and still use ORP in commercial settings, it is not a replacement for reliable chlorine testing and in my opinion for a homeowner is just more trouble than it’s worth.

I was describing the “dumb” acid injection system of the IntelliPH that automates acid dosing only. The way it works is that it injects acid every hour routinely for a user specified amount of time (or percentage). It’s basically an on-off relay for a Stenner pump that doses acid for the length of time you tell it.

All that rambling aside if you get serious about dosing acid with the Intelliph you need to go in eyes wide open and know there are potential issues with the system. The split tank is considered “non serviceable” by pentair and if the o-ring fails and it starts leaking they will want to sell you a $300 tank. In fact the tank is serviceable and you can repair the o-ring for about $17 by finding the correct chemical resistant replacement o-ring online.

Secondarily there are known issues with how much amperage the SWG pulls through the control board causing failures. There is a fairly simple fix that I’ve employed and was well conceived and outlined by @Dirk and @ogdento. The thread to my repair is here.

All that said I’d still advocate the system if you have a need for it and want to automate acid dosing.
Did you just call my IntellipH "dumb?!" Thems fighting words! 😡 He's just a little, uh, simple sometimes. Sheesh.

Even though I've never owned one, I would never recommend the IntelliChem system. An SWG and IntellipH will accomplish the same thing for far, far less money and hassle, and not actually require any more or less manual testing. I wouldn't rely on an IntelliChem for balancing FC and pH without testing my water manually once a week to make sure it's working correctly, and that's how often I test my water to make sure my SWG and IntellipH are working correctly! So why would I want all the expense and complexity of an IntelliChem?

I had the described over-current problem with my SWG and IntellipH, and I fixed it myself. While that issue is unfortunate (and well-known to Pentair), I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that combo just because of that. Because of the two, my total weekly pool chores take about 10 minutes. That's about as good as it gets for pool care.

I may have mentioned all this previously in your thread. Apologies. Including the following:

In AZ, a Pentair SWG will shut itself down for cold water in the winter. And Pentair decided the IntellipH shouldn't run in the winter either. So you'll lose both for a few months each year. I've worked around the IntellipH doing that (with a somewhat complicated circuit I devised), but I still have to manually add liquid chlorine about 12 times a year. I cannot say what an IntelliChem does in the winter. It can utilize either an SWG or chlorine tank. If SWG, that would be subject to this same limitation. I don't know if IntelliChem shuts down acid dosing when the SWG shuts down, nor do I know if the IntelliChem will dose acid and liquid chlorine year-round or not, regardless of pool water temp. So those are some things to research and consider if you ultimately decide to choose between IntelliChem or IntellipH.

That all said, even if IntelliChem could handle my winter dosing, I still wouldn't choose if over an IntellipH. They are just too expensive and needy. I'd stick with my "simple" IntellipH, thank you very much.
 
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All you guys really help a lot with your explanations.

Ok, so no intellichem in the future but the IntelliPH is something to think about. Really surprised to hear Pentair has a known issue when using the intelliph with the SWG where a known fix exists and they haven’t resolved it. Anyway, I took a look at the thread @Lake Placid posted and found the famous @Dirk / @ogdento fixes from the IntelliPH wiki.

If I do go down the IntelliPH path I’m glad I’ve got this info in my thread, thanks again!
 
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I just posted the message below in response to another TFP’ers questions in another thread about my waterfall and fire features. I also had similar questions about how noisy the waterfall scuppers are so I created a short video at different speeds. I thought I’d like to have the same info in my thread.

Fire bowls were stupid expensive, mine were $2k each about 6 months ago (I got a deal on sale, at the time list price was just under $3k), I just checked on the same ones and I almost choked, the same ones are now almost $5k each, gas line adds another big cost (depending on your run could add approximately $4k). At today’s prices I couldn’t do it for about $15k, that is just insane.

I’m sitting out tonight and just turned the fire bowls and waterfall on. So far we have the fire bowls going a few times a month, sometimes more often. This was even before the pool was filled. They just add some very nice ambience, especially with the waterfall. It has a very resort-ish feel. I just created and posted a 2 minute video on my YouTube channel if you want to hear the waterfall at various pump speeds. We usually have the pump running at 800 or 1,000 rpm’s.


We just filled the pool almost a month ago so not sure how often we will have the features running. Still very new to us and very 😎. Pool is drinking large amounts of acid daily right now given new plaster and bicarbonate startup with high TA, so not sure how much the waterfall contributes to pH. If you think you’ll use it, I would do it. It really is now or never.

Feature wall is 15’ long and 18” high, columns are 30”x30”x24” high, fire bowls are 24” square and they sit about 10” high.

Baja water depth is just over 10” at max autoleveler height. Our design called for 12” at nominal height, but somehow I missed the depth was off, probably at excavation. Not a biggie
 
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