Newb OB with BYOP in Buckeye AZ - Completion and wrap up

[Schwimmbad]

I've been a little lax in updating with pictures. See below feature wall work installing scuppers. I did a little level test on the first scupper by pouring water over the top of the scupper to see if it flowed evenly. Worked out very well. I didn't check the others with water. Later when checking with a level they weren't quite as level, but I think they were pretty good. I'll have to do another check with water before it's too late. I just want them to flow full width with low(ish) flow.

 

[Schwimmbad]

This post has some of the prep for waterline tile installation. Snapping lines, installing boards, and installing mortar. Next one will have waterline tile installation pics.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Here are a number of pics of waterline tile installation.



This last image has me a little concerned. You can see a little half moon of mortar came off.

Here is what happened. As I was reviewing their work, I discovered they were not using spacers by recognizing some variation in spacing simply by eyballing the grout lines. After I asked them to use spacers it brought the tiles together leaving a larger gap at the end. The epoxy had set up some, but the tiles were still able to be moved a little without too much of an issue. Before I asked them to fix the tiles, they cut two tiles instead of a narrow stip in a corner, while that makes sense visually, after moving the tiles, they had a nice size last piece. I asked them to remove the cut tiles and that's when they showed me some mortar came off with the epoxy and tile when they originally placed it. The epoxy had gotten pretty stiff and the mortar adhered to the epoxyed tile. I'm thinking this was only a one off but plan to check each tile by striking with a rubber mallet to see if anything moves. Anyone have a better idea?

 

[kimkats]

Lots of work has happened for sure!

I like the idea of tapping the tiles to make sure they are very secure. I would also take the time to look down at the tile from the top to see if you can see any empty areas behind the tiles. Those areas can hide water in them and cause the tiles to pop IF you have a freeze. Not likely in AZ but............something to look for as you never know.

 

[ajw22]

Use a grout blade in an oscillating tool to remove the thinset from the area where the tiles were removed. Clean it up and then they can lay fresh thinset and tile in a clean surface.

 

[Schwimmbad]

They did a nice job removing that section of mortar and I tapped all the tiles with a rubber mallet (several days after installation). All but 3 sounded like hitting a solid wall. The three that didn't had a much different sound, almost tinney. They were near the skimmers so I asked if maybe the plate over the top of the skimmer could be what is making the sound. They said there is a not adequate adhesive and replaced those tiles. Interesting that the tiles they took off that the mortar came off with the tile (due to the latapoxy). They cleaned the area up and installed new tiles.

Adding a number of pictures of ledger stone and coping installation.

I ordered precut corner pieces of the ledger stone and they are darker than the straight pieces. I'm likley going to replace the corner pieces later. Everytime I look at the columns I immediately notice the corners are darker, arrrggghhhh!

 

[Schwimmbad]

Some additional pictures of the skimmer and water levelor travertine pads.

Had a little issue with one skimmer being further from the face of the pool. Not exactly sure how that happened. Anyway, if placing a 12x12 travertine tile up against the coping, it didn't fully cover the skimmer top. We decided to make the cover 3" from the coping and cut the travertine to fill the gap. Hardscape contractor was perfectly fine with this approach. Since we are using a 3 piece random pattern they said they can adjust their decking to address this and you won't notice it.

 

[bdavis466]

The mortar bed is the weak part in the system. You basically used the Ferrari of thinsets, but have cheap generic tires.

I would have liked to have seen the mortar bed installed first and then the waterproofing applied over it. The motor bed is built by using a standard 3:1 sand/cement mix which is very well known to not hold up in submerged applications, and this is why the waterproofing is so important. If you were looking for something more robust than a material that is designed for submerged applications would have been ideal.

Tilesetters either don’t know proper installation techniques or are just too lazy to do it correctly (especially with smaller tiles) but when installing the tile, the thin set should get “burned in” to the substrate with the flat side of the trowel, and then followed by a quarter inch notched trowel applied parallel to the shortest side of the tile (directional troweling). The back of the tile should get “buttered” with an 1/8” layer of thin set applied with the flat side of the trowel and then the tile can be placed. This method provides 100% coverage and would produce a long lasting install that would be an absolute nightmare for the person that decides to remove the tile for a later renovation

 

[Schwimmbad]

I didn't look up the Laticrete design spec on waterproofing until after they put it on directly over the shotcrete. Their specs are exactly like you mention. Shotcrete, mortar, waterproofing, thin set.

Tile company had two different guys installing the tile and both said the waterproofing is supposed to be after the mortar. Hopefully I'll still have a strong long lasting installation and the mortar will be well protected by the epoxy grout. I probably spent $1K more for the waterproofing and Latapoxy, hope it wasn't pouring money down the drain.

 

[bdavis466]

I doubt you’ll see any issues, but judging by your attention to detail in this build, I figured I would just add a layer of worry to keep you awake at night.

Using epoxy grout will be a huge benefit and basically seal off the water intrusion behind the tile for the most part.

Are you planning on applying basecrete to the entire pool shell before Plaster? If not, you might consider at least slathering on a layer of it (or some other waterproofing that odd compatible with plaster) on the bottom side of the tile and mortar bed where it will meet the plaster.

Be sure to use a good sealant where the tile meets the coping. Grout isn’t exactly ideal in transitions.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Gee thanks!!!

Great idea on the waterproofing below the waterline tile to cover the exposed mortar! You just added another item on my to do list before my rotar cuff sugery this coming Thursday. I've got quite a bit of basecrete left. Was thinking about getting rid of it on the equipment screening walls to prevent possible efflorescence, but it will go to much better use to protect the waterline tiles. Anything remaining will go on the walls.

 

[bdavis466]

I would use it on the shell before the equipment walls. It really is a good product and I’m surprised it’s only used on higher end builds. I hope at some point using a waterproofing/bonding agent prior to plaster will become standard practice.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Our tile guy finished setting all the tiles (including step tiles) and installing the epoxy grout. I decided to only use the Latapoxy adhesive on the waterline tile and above that on the feature wall we used the 254 thinset. Figured the waterline is where I want to spend the money on the adhesive.

That Spectralok Pro Premium is really good stuff. Took 2 full containers for our job of 76 sqft. The Laticrete epoxy calculator said I would use just over one container. I had them grout the gap between the travertine coping and the tile and they said that gap took a lot of grout. I spent about 3 hours going over every tile with a vinegar/water solution (I used the Laticrete guidelines of 1 to 4 ratio) and a putty knife to scrape off the grout that the vinegar/water couldn't remove. I'm glad I did that right away, it was actually quite a bit of work and I can see that it would not come off if left to cure. While there was not a lot of grout left on the tiles I could tell there was a little haze and there and some spots that had little chucks of grout that required a good amount of effort to remove. If I didn't get down there and go tile by tile really looking closely I would not have noticed some grout on the tiles but when hanging out in the pool over the years I'm sure I would have. The color variation on the tiles hid it pretty well.

Here are a number of pictures.

 

[Schwimmbad]

The cleanup crew cut the capped returns before I could stop them. I won't be installing the plaster until late February. I was going to just cover them with duct tape but is there any concerns with leaving them unplugged?

The mason also finished the back side of the feature wall and mount the fire pots. They are coming back to apply waterproofing below the tile line to cover the tile mortar along and the mortar below the skimmer openings (thanks a bunch for the suggestions @bdavis466). They will also fill in some gaps of mortar under the coping to give it a solid surface under the entire coping. My landscaper would not do anything with the coping and I didn't want a gap there.

Some more pictures of the backside of the feature wall and the equipment walls. Lots of room on that pad!

I'll update the timelapse in the next week or so. Going in for rotator cuff surgery tomorrow so I'm busy with a lot of odds and ends to take care of while I still have two mostly functional arms.


This is one of the worst gaps under the coping that will be filled in.

 

[derekbishop]

It’s come a long way and looking great. Sending well wishes your way for your surgery!

 

[Newdude]

+1 on the well wishes. That surgery was wild. I came home surgically fixed with an arm that was entirely dead.

My fingers, wrist and elbow went on sympathy strike but came back online in a week or so once the swelling subsided a little.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

If you can remove all the extra under the tiles so the plaster will be the proper thickness at this joint.

 

[Schwimmbad]

It’s come a long way and looking great. Sending well wishes your way for your surgery!

Appreciate the well wishes, thanks!

+1 on the well wishes. That surgery was wild. I came home surgically fixed with an arm that was entirely dead.

My fingers, wrist and elbow went on sympathy strike but came back online in a week or so once the swelling subsided a little.

While I’ve read a lot I still am not too sure what to expect. I’m prepped for the worst and hope for the best. How long before you were mostly back to normal and “done” with PT?

If you can remove all the extra under the tiles so the plaster will be the proper thickness at this joint.

Thanks so much for the suggestion. I’ll make sure to clean that up. I noticed some places below the tile the thin set was fragile and would easily crumble, but didn’t think about making that a clean line for the waterproofing.

 

[Newdude]

While I’ve read a lot I still am not too sure what to expect. I’m prepp for the worst and hope for the best. How long before you were mostly back to normal and “done” with PT?

It was worse than they thought when they got up in there so I had 4 anchors installed and it SUCKED. I was on hard meds for 3 or 4 weeks instead of 3 or 4 days. What had been forecast as a 3 month recovery became 6, then covid shut the world down and delayed it to 9 months.

IIRC i was pain free after 2 months and after 3 months I could function fine for 95% of life. I just couldn't reach anything above my head but I could reach straight out and full motion side to side. If I worked in an office I could have been back in 2 months on light duty.

Mine was a medium recovery, I met a guy who got 8 anchors and took twice as long to get through the ugly part, and I've met a few who were mostly fine in a couple weeks.

 

[pcollins22]

Looking good! As a fellow Phoenician, after your build is complete I would appreciate any feedback you have on specific contractors used, and whether you'd recommend or not. TIA!