Thanks Pooldv. I knew they wouldn't show up if they were in stains but I didn't know the sequesterant would effect things.
New white grout turning YELLOW! Help!
- Thread starter JenniferJuniper2
- Start date
Well now we seem to be caught in a cycle...stains, acid treatment, cloudy water, then stains just come right back. We are going to try a different sequesterant (Jack's Magic), circulating the water through a metal trap filter, and also adding a new (bigger) CuLator packet, as ours is now very yellow/orangish in spots.
An ascorbic acid treatement is one of the times when algaecide helps as it can help prevent algae from forming when you don't have any FC. Just make sure you get polyquat 60. Many algaecides have copper.
Does the company have any idea on how many packets it takes to remove a certain amount of metal? Seems like this could get really expensive and time consuming.
Does the company have any idea on how many packets it takes to remove a certain amount of metal? Seems like this could get really expensive and time consuming.
That is the cycle of metals unless you can remove them by partial draining and refilling with metal free water to get the level low enough not to stain.
Well supposedly the metal trap filter we got can filter metal out of up to 25k gallons of water (my pool is about 25k gallons).
We have been adding algaecide. The cloudiness, according to our research, does not seem to be caused by algae...we read that adding chlorine to water with too much sequesterant will cause cloudiness as well (it's like milky looking. We got a 2nd opinion from our pool guy--who we have not been using lately--and he said it didn't look like algae to him either). I think we were adding too much.
Our problem with draining and refilling is that we don't know where the metal is coming from. Our tap water does not test positive for iron (or copper for that matter). We think it might be coming from the rock waterfall. We never noticed it before we refinished, but our finish was so delaminated and stained (it looked mostly various shades of gray, with a bit of organic algae staining, black parts showing through in the most delaminated parts, and some kind of beige-ish color on the steps) I doubt we would ever have noticed. Also we never used the waterfall more than a couple of times until recently. If it IS coming from the rocks I am not sure what we can do about it apart from filtering, CuLator, and sequesterant. We could just stop using the waterfall, but whenever it rains we would end up with the same problem.
We have been adding algaecide. The cloudiness, according to our research, does not seem to be caused by algae...we read that adding chlorine to water with too much sequesterant will cause cloudiness as well (it's like milky looking. We got a 2nd opinion from our pool guy--who we have not been using lately--and he said it didn't look like algae to him either). I think we were adding too much.
Our problem with draining and refilling is that we don't know where the metal is coming from. Our tap water does not test positive for iron (or copper for that matter). We think it might be coming from the rock waterfall. We never noticed it before we refinished, but our finish was so delaminated and stained (it looked mostly various shades of gray, with a bit of organic algae staining, black parts showing through in the most delaminated parts, and some kind of beige-ish color on the steps) I doubt we would ever have noticed. Also we never used the waterfall more than a couple of times until recently. If it IS coming from the rocks I am not sure what we can do about it apart from filtering, CuLator, and sequesterant. We could just stop using the waterfall, but whenever it rains we would end up with the same problem.
It is easy enough to verify if you have algae by performing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. Is the algaecide quat or metal based? Lots of algaecide has copper. Agreed, metal is a pain. Difficult to figure out and cure.
Pooldv, it's quat. Our pool looked clear for about a day. Now it's green. Definitely algae. We are bringing up the chlorine faster now and also added some algaecide. Grout is already yellowish again although steps still look blue (hard to tell about the rest of the pool, since the water is green).
I wish I knew where the metal was coming from. If we knew it was from the fill, we would just put a metal trap filter on the hose and refill. But the test strips we have show no copper or iron in the tap (we think it's iron due to CuLator turning very yellow) OR in the pool. And Leslie's tested both pool water and tap, and found no iron. Their numbers were weird across the board though, so I am not sure they were right. Anyway I understand that our sequestrant might have interfered with the pool water tests but if it was in the tap water I would think it would show up?
If it's coming from the rock waterfall, is there anything we can do? Is there sealant you can get for the rocks or something?
ETA: my husband (a geologist) thinks iron may have entered the water from the rocks because the resurfacers sandblasted the waterfall. This would have possibly resulted in rock-dust-particles getting into the pool after the resurface job was done (it rained right after, plus later we used the waterfall...so maybe if we drained and refilled, the problem really would be solved?).
I wish I knew where the metal was coming from. If we knew it was from the fill, we would just put a metal trap filter on the hose and refill. But the test strips we have show no copper or iron in the tap (we think it's iron due to CuLator turning very yellow) OR in the pool. And Leslie's tested both pool water and tap, and found no iron. Their numbers were weird across the board though, so I am not sure they were right. Anyway I understand that our sequestrant might have interfered with the pool water tests but if it was in the tap water I would think it would show up?
If it's coming from the rock waterfall, is there anything we can do? Is there sealant you can get for the rocks or something?
ETA: my husband (a geologist) thinks iron may have entered the water from the rocks because the resurfacers sandblasted the waterfall. This would have possibly resulted in rock-dust-particles getting into the pool after the resurface job was done (it rained right after, plus later we used the waterfall...so maybe if we drained and refilled, the problem really would be solved?).
Algaecide does absolutely nothing to get rid of algae once it is present. It only helps prevent algae when your FC is zero.
I'm hoping the drain and refill will help. Remember that draining and refilling will not get rid of the metals that are in a stain. You should try to add a metal sequestrant to get the metals to be in suspension. This way, they metals will be removed when you drain.
If you have never had a problem with staining before, I hope the drain/refill will get rid of the metals.
I'm hoping the drain and refill will help. Remember that draining and refilling will not get rid of the metals that are in a stain. You should try to add a metal sequestrant to get the metals to be in suspension. This way, they metals will be removed when you drain.
If you have never had a problem with staining before, I hope the drain/refill will get rid of the metals.
Kcindc thanks. Honestly I am not sure if it had metal staining before we resurfaced or not. The finish was in such poor shape I couldn't even tell what color it was supposed to be in the first place. It was black in spots, mostly light and dark gray, with some definite orangish-beige, along with some nice green algae stains that we never even bothered to seriously try to remove lol. It was soooo bad. I don't even know what color the grout was either. It looked grayish but was super calcium stained.
Here's a good example of what it looked like before. This pic does not even show the full extent of it though lol.
Our resurfacer thought maybe it was originally black but who knows.
If we DO drain...how much is safe to drain at one time? We don't want to ruin the new plaster OR pop out the pool. We are in the Sacramento CA area and are in the middle of a drought, so the water table is very low, but still.
Our resurfacer thought maybe it was originally black but who knows.
If we DO drain...how much is safe to drain at one time? We don't want to ruin the new plaster OR pop out the pool. We are in the Sacramento CA area and are in the middle of a drought, so the water table is very low, but still.
I'll wait for others to chime in, but I think reverse osmosis will help get rid of metals. You would need to get the metal in suspension before the RO treatment.
Do any of your neighbors have pools? If so, do they have a problem with metals? This might help eliminate whether the fill water has metals.
Do any of your neighbors have pools? If so, do they have a problem with metals? This might help eliminate whether the fill water has metals.
It is used for removing unwanted stuff from water. I have heard of it mostly being used to lower CYA and CH in pools. It is a kind of water treatment done right there.
Not many areas have it. I have seen it in CA and TX. Do some research to make sure. It is costly BUT in CA your water cost and fines could be high so......
Kim:cat:
I agree that if there were metals in the tap water it would show up. It is also not likely that there are metals in the tap water, it is fairly rare. I would stick with 50% drains to dilute the metals.
Well after adding algaecide and slowly raising the chlorine, our water cleared up completely overnight (it still looked awful around 7:15pm, last time I checked it during daylight last night). We tested the water one more time at midnight (it was hard to tell how clear the water was, but it already looked better with the pool light on). We also added a bit of muriatic acid because our Ph was creeping up a little.
This morning water is crystal clear with TC at about 4 and FC at a little under 3. Ph is 7.2.
1) How did the algae die so fast without shocking the pool?
2) Since I didn't shock it...am I still good to swim now?
This morning water is crystal clear with TC at about 4 and FC at a little under 3. Ph is 7.2.
1) How did the algae die so fast without shocking the pool?
2) Since I didn't shock it...am I still good to swim now?
It is safe to swim when
FC is above minimum and below shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]
PH is 7.2 to 7.8
And the water is clear
Be sure to always keep FC above minimum at all times to keep the pool sanitary and keep the algae at bay. I would try to slowly raise the FC up above target 1or 2 ppm at time to kill the algae. Keep a close eye on the staining. You want to raise FC as high as you can and not make more stains.
FC is above minimum and below shock level for your CYA, [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]
PH is 7.2 to 7.8
And the water is clear
Be sure to always keep FC above minimum at all times to keep the pool sanitary and keep the algae at bay. I would try to slowly raise the FC up above target 1or 2 ppm at time to kill the algae. Keep a close eye on the staining. You want to raise FC as high as you can and not make more stains.
Thanks Pooldv. I love this forum. You are all so helpful. Because of this place, I now know how to test water and add chemicals on my own. ��
And THAT ^^^^^^^^^^ is why we do it! Sweet!
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Kim:cat:
So we did our last ascorbic acid treatment at least 3 weeks ago (don't remember the exact date). Our pool is STILL not holding chlorine. I shocked the pool yesterday and a) our stains came back (they were already coming back anyway but now they look worse) and b) our FC (which was at like 10ppm right after I shocked it) is back to less than 0.5 today.
I have been using Jack's Magic (pink stuff, for iron stains) and bought a Sequest Test. I brought the sequesterant to about 12ppm (the test says 10-12 ppm of sequesterant is good) last weekend. I tested it 2 days ago and it said it was still at over 10ppm. This morning it was at 7ppm. How did that happen? Did the chlorine shock eat up the sequesterant? Can that even happen?
As far as our staining goes I am pretty much ready to give up. My CuLator 1.0 packet is so yellow that it's actually orangish but there seems to still be enough metal in the water that my stain situation is hopeless (we added a CuLator 4.0 packet last weekend so we will see if that does anything). What's worse is we can't even use the pool because it never has enough chlorine to be safe (both FC and TC are always the same number as each other...so it's not like the chlorine is just getting tied up with germs...the TC is actually disappearing along with the FC).
How do I make my pool useable if it won't hold chlorine? And WHY is it still not holding chlorine even 3 weeks after the ascorbic acid treatment?
The only good news is that somehow, we don't have algae. Probably because we have been adding algaecide (the kind WITHOUT copper). I guess it must be holding the algaecide ok because I'm not sure how else we wouldn't have algae right now with chlorine this low.
I'm supposed to be having a pool party in 2 weeks and I am panicking.
I have been using Jack's Magic (pink stuff, for iron stains) and bought a Sequest Test. I brought the sequesterant to about 12ppm (the test says 10-12 ppm of sequesterant is good) last weekend. I tested it 2 days ago and it said it was still at over 10ppm. This morning it was at 7ppm. How did that happen? Did the chlorine shock eat up the sequesterant? Can that even happen?
As far as our staining goes I am pretty much ready to give up. My CuLator 1.0 packet is so yellow that it's actually orangish but there seems to still be enough metal in the water that my stain situation is hopeless (we added a CuLator 4.0 packet last weekend so we will see if that does anything). What's worse is we can't even use the pool because it never has enough chlorine to be safe (both FC and TC are always the same number as each other...so it's not like the chlorine is just getting tied up with germs...the TC is actually disappearing along with the FC).
How do I make my pool useable if it won't hold chlorine? And WHY is it still not holding chlorine even 3 weeks after the ascorbic acid treatment?
The only good news is that somehow, we don't have algae. Probably because we have been adding algaecide (the kind WITHOUT copper). I guess it must be holding the algaecide ok because I'm not sure how else we wouldn't have algae right now with chlorine this low.
I'm supposed to be having a pool party in 2 weeks and I am panicking.
Also....I can't get a reading in our CYA. We have a Taylor kit and you're supposed to mix up your reagent with the pool water in a little vial and mix it for 30 seconds till it's cloudy, and then dump it into this other vial with a black dot on the bottom, then take the reading when the cloudy water makes the dot invisible. Well our water, with the reagent, stays completely clear. Which means our CYA is definitely below 30 but probably more like 0 since its completely clear.
FYI we have been chlorinating with plain Clorox-style liquid bleach. We also have a floatie thing with the chlorine tablets in it. As I understand, the picks should have CYA in them? Other than that we haven't done anything to adjust our CYA levels. Last time we tested CYA (a month or two ago?) it was between 30 and 50 but I don't remember the exact number.
Please help. ��
FYI we have been chlorinating with plain Clorox-style liquid bleach. We also have a floatie thing with the chlorine tablets in it. As I understand, the picks should have CYA in them? Other than that we haven't done anything to adjust our CYA levels. Last time we tested CYA (a month or two ago?) it was between 30 and 50 but I don't remember the exact number.
Please help. ��