New to TFP but not new to pools - numbers are off

[CopperGirl]

Hi,
I'm new to TFP but not new to pools (we've had one for about 30 years). In reading the different posts, I decided that I should purchase the TF-100 kit and test my own water before posting. What started all of this was that I noticed copper stains on the floor of the deep end. Our pool is gunite with diamond brite (11,000 gal). Anyway, after at-home testingwith the kit, I took the water to our local pool store that I've been going to for 30 years and had them perform the tests. Below are the results
TF-100
FC - 29 (definite orange color)
CC - 2.5
pH - 7.8
TA - 100
CH - 0
CYA - 110

Pool store
Chlorine - not sure but he said it was slightly high - their number system didn't match up with TF-100 so can't compare and he said they don't test FC??
pH - 7.6
TA - 90
CH - 250
CYA - 100


Since I'm a newbie at testing my own water, not sure which levels to believe. With the calcium hardness test that I did, the water remained clear after adding 10 drops of R-0010 and 3 drops of R-0011L. Red is supposed to indicate the presence of calcium so I took the fact that the water remained clear after adding the drops to mean that there was no calcium present in the water; however the pool store says the level is 250. Was I correct in assuming calcium was 0 when the water remained clear after adding the drops? As a side note, I've had a few water line tiles fall off over the past few months. Not sure if this has any bearing on the calcium level being off.

Another questions re: the TA test, it says that if chlorine is high, initial color may be blue and then shift to yellow as the drops are being added. The first time I performed this test I did not notice the NOTE about the high chlorine levels colors being a bit different when testing for TA so I kept adding drops trying to obtain the red color. I finally stopped when I realized that the water was not changing to red and performed the test again (after I saw the note about high chlorine at the bottom) and once the water turned yellow, that's the reading I took. Is this correct in the presence of high chlorine?

Which levels should I be concerned about here? The only thing the pool store advised me to add today was 3 cups of acid. Would you all agree with that? Thanks in advance.

 

[PoolStored]

Which levels should I be concerned about here?

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, please stay out of the pool store, those test results are inaccurate and unreliable. TFP is based on reliable testing with your own test kit. Why? If we tell you to do something to your pool, based on pool store testing, we could do damage. If you have a reliable test kit, we are confident in our recommendations.

Second, how are your chlorinating?

Your biggest issue is your CYA. Everything else can wait. Would your please redo your CYA test and follow these instructions:
Add pool water to bottom of sticker/line.
Add tap water to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Pour out half so mixture is to bottom of sticker/line.
Add reagent to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Test outside with back to sun and tube at waist level.
Pour back and forth a few times to see if you get the same result.
Double the result.

Report that result here and we will go from there.

Two of your first reads:
FC/CYA Levels
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

 

[pjt]

copper stains on the floor of the deep end

Have you been adding copper? Have you tested for copper?

FC - 29 (definite orange color)

Are you using the FAS-DPD (uses powder) test? You should be. The color should transition from pink to clear during the test. Where do you see an orange color? I suspect testing error.

pH - 7.8

If FC is above 10, the pH test is invalid.

CH - 0

The red color is subtle, like a clear purple/magenta. The color transitions to a clear baby blue.

Do you have a SpeedStir? If not, I'd highly recommend one:

Amazon.com

I'm new to TFP but not new to pools (we've had one for about 30 years).

You may need to "unlearn" some bad habits if you choose the TFP journey. You've found the best resource possible for pool owners. Start here: Pool School

 

[CopperGirl]

Thank you for the quick replies. Unfortunately, with Super Bowl weekend and a Super Bowl party, the above tests will have to wait until tomorrow. I will review the information you've given me and report back.

To answer once question quickly, no, we are not adding copper and I'm not sure where the copper is coming from. We DO use well water which is purified by RO to fill the pool when necessary, so maybe there is some copper in the RO system?? We do not have a heater, so can't be coming from that.

Will report back tomorrow after redoing the testing as per your instructions. Thanks. Go Chiefs!!

 

[PoolStored]

What started all of this was that I noticed copper stains on the floor of the deep end.

What makes you think it is Copper? Can you take a few pictures and post them here?

 

[Newdude]

To answer once question quickly, no, we are not adding copper and I'm not sure where the copper is coming from

No algecides, '5-in-1' mystery potions or anything with blue / extra blue in the name ?

 

[CopperGirl]

Oh yeah, sorry...we normally use a 3-month algecide called SeaKlear BUT we have not added it since last September.

 

[CopperGirl]

What makes you think it is Copper? Can you take a few pictures and post them here?

Will do...heading out soon to grab that pool sample. It may not be copper since we added a chelator on Friday and there appears to be no change. I'll post a photo after I get done with the tests you all want me to do and get back to you.

 

[Mdragger88]

Are you using chlorine tablets? I’m guessing so by your elevated cya level.
Many have extra things in them like copper.

 

[CopperGirl]

Have you been adding copper? Have you tested for copper?


Are you using the FAS-DPD (uses powder) test? You should be. The color should transition from pink to clear during the test. Where do you see an orange color? I suspect testing error


If FC is above 10, the pH test is invalid.


The red color is subtle, like a clear purple/magenta. The color transitions to a clear baby blue.


Do you have a SpeedStir? If not, I'd highly recommend one:

No I do not...it's just me swirling and swirling that tube


You may need to "unlearn" some bad habits if you choose the TFP journey. You've found the best resource possible for pool owners. Start here: Pool School

The orange color is seen in the daily pH and Chlorine test.

 

[CopperGirl]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, please stay out of the pool store, those test results are inaccurate and unreliable. TFP is based on reliable testing with your own test kit. Why? If we tell you to do something to your pool, based on pool store testing, we could do damage. If you have a reliable test kit, we are confident in our recommendations.

Second, how are your chlorinating?

Your biggest issue is your CYA. Everything else can wait. Would your please redo your CYA test and follow these instructions:
Add pool water to bottom of sticker/line.
Add tap water to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Pour out half so mixture is to bottom of sticker/line.
Add reagent to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Test outside with back to sun and tube at waist level.
Pour back and forth a few times to see if you get the same result.
Double the result.

Report that result here and we will go from there.

Two of your first reads:
FC/CYA Levels
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

Using Liquid chlorine.

 

[CopperGirl]

Are you using chlorine tablets? I’m guessing so by your elevated cya level.
Many have extra things in them like copper.

No, we always add liquid chlorine...never use tablets. Last addition of chlorine was 10 days ago...half a jug and 3 cups of acid (which has always been "normal maintenance" per pool store).

 

[Mdragger88]

The orange color is seen in the daily pH and Chlorine test.

This is because your fc is above 10ppm.
This makes the oto test (yellow drops in the comparator block) appear more orange.
Fc levels above 10ppm render the ph test invalid (usually reading higher than actual) so do not attempt to adjust ph until fc falls & you retest.
How are you chlorinating???
Why is your fc so high? Are you attempting to remedy an issue or just accidentally over did it due to the cool water/low uv?
Please be aware that Trichlor (pucks/powders) & dichlor are also acidic so they will lower ph. If you have some in the water now - remove them.
I have a feeling your ph is actually quite low. You need to do a diluted ph test to get an accurate value since your fc is so high.

PH - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Report back with your results.

 

[CopperGirl]

Welcome to TFP!!!

First, please stay out of the pool store, those test results are inaccurate and unreliable. TFP is based on reliable testing with your own test kit. Why? If we tell you to do something to your pool, based on pool store testing, we could do damage. If you have a reliable test kit, we are confident in our recommendations.

Second, how are your chlorinating?

Your biggest issue is your CYA. Everything else can wait. Would your please redo your CYA test and follow these instructions:
Add pool water to bottom of sticker/line.
Add tap water to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Pour out half so mixture is to bottom of sticker/line.
Add reagent to top of sticker/line.
Shake.
Test outside with back to sun and tube at waist level.
Pour back and forth a few times to see if you get the same result.
Double the result.

Report that result here and we will go from there.

Two of your first reads:
FC/CYA Levels
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

Here are the results of the CYA test as done per your instructions (and I also did a Chlorine test). Note, I DOUBLED the result I saw as per your instructions. CYA appears to be A LOT higher than the other day and Chlorine a bit lower??

 

[CopperGirl]

This is because your fc is above 10ppm.
This makes the oto test (yellow drops in the comparator block) appear more orange.
Fc levels above 10ppm render the ph test invalid (usually reading higher than actual) so do not attempt to adjust ph until fc falls & you retest.
How are you chlorinating???
Why is your fc so high? Are you attempting to remedy an issue or just accidentally over did it due to the cool water/low uv?
Please be aware that Trichlor (pucks/powders) & dichlor are also acidic so they will lower ph. If you have some in the water now - remove them.
I have a feeling your ph is actually quite low. You need to do a diluted ph test to get an accurate value since your fc is so high.

PH - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Report back with your results.

Just liquid chlorine and last chlorine was added 10 days ago along with 3 cups of acid. Never use pucks.

What is a diluted pH test? Thanks. So many new things to learn.

 

[Mdragger88]

Just liquid chlorine and last chlorine was added 10 days ago along with 3 cups of acid. Never use pucks.

What is a diluted pH test? Thanks. So many new things to learn.

Follow the link I posted about ph testing-

How did the cya get so high?

 

[CopperGirl]

Follow the link I posted about ph testing-

How did the cya get so high?

I was hoping you would tell me!! Stabilizer (8 lbs.) was added about a month ago per pool store reco.

 

[PoolStored]

I was hoping you would tell me!! Stabilizer (8 lbs.) was added about a month ago per pool store reco.

8lbs in an 11K pool would raise CYA by about 90. My guess is that the pool store test was off and there advice was wrong as a result.

To get that CYA out of the pool, you will have to replace about 3/4 of the water in your pool. At that level of CYA, it is impossible to sanitize the pool and have it be safe for swimmers.

Read this, particularly the section on "no drain water exchange." We can help you get your pool fixed...

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Mdragger88]

I was hoping you would tell me!! Stabilizer (8 lbs.) was added about a month ago per pool store reco.

That’s how

Obviously you had some cya in the water already- no more pool store testing/ reccomendations!
Pool Care Basics

 

[CopperGirl]

8lbs in an 11K pool would raise CYA by about 90. My guess is that the pool store test was off and there advice was wrong as a result.

To get that CYA out of the pool, you will have to replace about 3/4 of the water in your pool. At that level of CYA, it is impossible to sanitize the pool and have it be safe for swimmers.

Read this, particularly the section on "no drain water exchange." We can help you get your pool fixed...

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Not sure this will be possible since we have a whole house RO system and a tank which holds only 500 gallons of water. It takes about 10 hours to fill the tank completely so this process of water exchange would not be able to be done all at once. Even when we have to fill the pool a few inches because of dry weather, we can only let the hose run about 20 minutes into the pool at a time, then we have to wait til the next day if we need to fill more. And no way would we run a hose from the well pump (which is BEFORE the RO system) in order to do the exchange. Any other solution?

Also, we have a paper filter, not DE or sand.