New to Pentair ScreenLogic

[Steve-D]

Greetings all. We have a new build and Pentair came out yesterday to do the basic programming which was pretty much the last step in the installation. Surprise surprise, we can no longer control the pump at its controls (learned this is normal) and double surprise we learned that The Android version of the ScreenLogic Connect (me) is more functionally limited than the IOS version (my wife). After a 2 hour wait to hear from Pentair Customer Service and 40 minutes with a relatively well informed Rep I downloaded the Android ScreenLogic Config app while the Pentair Rep talked me through some of the basic setups to replace the presets that we lost at the Intelliflo control panel.

Not happy with my pool installer's follow-up.
Happy with the Pentair Rep.
Not particularly happy with Pentair as a company since they have apparently ignored the Android apps since inception.

I think I got a good start with ScreenLogic but I'm having issues getting my schedule to work as I had hoped. I've set up multiple "circuits" at different flow rates leaving the most energy costly to run after peak electric rates drop at 9 PM. My pump needs to run at 1650 rpm or higher to generate FC so I have a "Pool Slow" set for 1750, "NoFC" @ 1500 and a "HighFlow" set @ 2750.

I thought I had overlapped the schedules correctly so that "Pool Slow" (1750 RPM) is effectively the default no matter the time of day with overrides for much of the daytime to run "NoFC" and then "HighFC" to kick in for a few hours between 9 PM and midnight. What I saw today was that when I expected "NoFC" to take over it still ran at "Pool Slow." I guess this is expected as the higher speed wins in an overlap, so I'm wondering if what I am trying to do is possible at all or do I need to change my expectations on how to run this?

The $ cost of running at 1500 vs 1750 is probably not meaningful even at peak rates so am I better off leaving "Pool Slow" as the default and only manually running an override at 1500 to stop FC production? Is turning off the Intellichlor production I can schedule separately at a rpm level that would otherwise automatically generate FC?

I want to be able to schedule a time when the pump is running but not generating FC because in the first weeks we had the SWG running our FC level incremented up to as high as 8.0 even at the lowest (2%) Intellichlor setting. Those same conditions may not apply going forward (cold, no pool usage and solar cover on for days in a row) as we kick into high use season but I want to be prepared to deal adjust for potentially high FC via automation if I need to

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

I know of nothing that the Apple App can do that the Android can't do.. The apple app looks better, but I don't see where that is a big deal. I use my PC 99% of the time, as I find the phone to just be much harder to use for troubleshooting or programming.

If your pump is wired the way it should be, the EasyTouch is in charge except when in the Service mode. In the Service mode the pump's control panel is in charge. Other than when doing maintenance, there is almost no reason to run the pump from the pump's control panel.

Show me your schedules..

Show me a pic of the front panel on your EasyTouch, I want to make sure I understand which one you have.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Steve-D]

Thanks Jim.
EasyTouch Panel:

Schedule related screen shots added to my original post.
[edit] the late night schedule (HigFlow) was cut of in the first "Schedule" screen shot so I cropped and added that as a the 2nd schedule screen shot.

I don't usually post from my phone (where the pics are) so apologies for the repeated edits. I type badly enough on a full keyboard and I really hate typing on my phone.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

I am not exactly sure what you want to do.. It looks like you want the pump to run 24/7, at different speeds, is that true.

It looks like you want to run the pump, sometimes with the cell off. What times do you want the cell to be off?

What times do you want the cell to be on and producing chlorine?

What is HiFlow for and what times do you want it to run?

What is Swim 2250 for? Will this be manually turned on or do you want to schedule it?

Is "NoFC" a Feature Circuit?

Did you rename "Pool" as Pool low?? Or is Pool Low a Feature circuit?

Is HiFlow a Feature Circuit?

Two things to know...

1. When the pump sees two or more speeds it will always run the faster one.
2. The Pump/Filter relay will only close when in the Pool or Spa mode. If this relay does not close, then the cell will never work.

If you can answer the above questions, I'm sure we can come up with a schedule that should work better for you.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Do you have an extra AUX relay that is unused?

If so I would wire the LOAD side of your filter/pump relay to the LINE side of the unused relay. Then move the Intellichlor power from the filter/pump relay to the AUX relay.

Then rather then trying to use pump speeds to control your SWG you can directly program whatever schedules you want for the SWG ON and OFF times.

Much more straightforward and reliable to control your SWG.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Allen,

I'm not using pump speed to turn the SWCG on or off.. I'm using the pump/filter relay's operation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Allen,

I'm not using pump speed to turn the SWCG on or off.. I'm using the pump/filter relay's operation.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I am responding to what Steve asked for:

I want to be able to schedule a time when the pump is running but not generating FC because in the first weeks we had the SWG running our FC level incremented up to as high as 8.0 even at the lowest (2%) Intellichlor setting. Those same conditions may not apply going forward (cold, no pool usage and solar cover on for days in a row) as we kick into high use season but I want to be prepared to deal adjust for potentially high FC via automation if I need to

 

[Steve-D]

Yes, I want to run the pump 24x7 sometimes (peak of day as shown) with No FC, briefly (evening )at High FC for more thorough circulation/filtering during off peak electric rates, and I want to run as a default with Low FC /Lower Speed @ 1750 at all other times. Also, If one of the scheduled events is manually turned off I was hoping that "Pool Slow" would be the default to take over. And Yes, I renamed "Pool" to "Pool Slow. "Only "Pool Slow" is a "Pool" circuit function, the others are all "Generic." and High FC is a Feature as the app would not let me add it to "Pool".

Basically I want to generate at least some FC most of the day with a period of time during peak electric rates (daytime) that the pump runs slower and generates no FC by way of the slow/no flow switch in the IC40.

As long as I can find a way to turn FC generation off in the IC40 as a schedule item within the "Slow Flow" window I am OK with dropping the "NoFC (1500 rpm) circuit from the schedule and leave it as a manual item.

 

[Steve-D]

Thank you both...
This is all brand new (water added 5/6) and we only got the heater working yesterday and my wife would KILL me if I did anything to knock the pool offline so I don't know that I'm comfortable re-wiring anything...at least this early in the game. Aux3 is not in use as far as I know...all we have for extras in this pool are the booster pump for the Polaris (Cleaner/aux1) and the Pool light (aux2). I am certainly up for learning how I might do that, tough.

 

[Steve-D]

I will also need to figure out what to do with vacation scheduling, but for now I just want to get daily 24x7 automation in place with options for some specific manual overrides like the "Swim" circuit (somewhat higher flow) or the "NoFC" circuits (slower flow).

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

Try this schedule idea..

NoFC from 8 am until 8 am. This will run the pump 24/7 at whatever speed you want. It will not turn on the salt cell, because the Pump/Filter relay will not close as you are not in the Pool or Spa mode.

Pool Low.. 8 am until 9 pm, or any hours you want to be making chlorine.. Since Pool Low is really the "Pool" circuit, it will turn on the Pump/Filter circuit and the cell will be making chlorine. Obviously, the speed has to be fast enough to close the flow switch.

HiFC... Schedule it 9:30 to 11:45 (or whatever time you want the pump to run at 2750)
The name does not make sense, but what ever works for you. This circuit will increase the pump speed to 2750. After 9 pm this circuit will not make chlorine as the Pool Low will be off and the HiFC circuit will not close the pump filter relay. If later you wanted to make more chlorine, you could just turn Pool Low back on. You'd be making chlorine, but the pump would continue to run at 2750.

Swim -2250.. You could schedule this if you wanted, but it will not make chlorine. If HiFC is on, and you turn on the Swim circuit, nothing will happen as this speed is lower than 2750. If HiFC is off and if Pool low is on, the speed will increase to 2250 and you will be making chlorine. If Pool low and HiFC are off, then turning on Swim will increase your pump speed and you will not be making chlorine.

Keep in mind that we are turning the cell on and off using the pump/filer relay and not using the flow switch to shut the cell off at low speeds.

Please let me know if this does not make sense.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Steve-D]

All of the "Circuits" I've defined in ScreenLogic relate to the one/only pump (not counting the Cleaner's booster pump). It is a simple pool setup...no Spa or water features. Prior to programming the panel the only means I had to turn FC production on or off was to run the filter pump either at a speed below what triggers the slow/no flow indicator on the IC40 (NoFC) or to run it above that threshold (which happens to be @ 1650 rpm). Now with the panel programmed I can more fully manage the FC output via the ScreenLogic app but I still like the idea of having a pre-set defined that lets me run the filter but without generating FC.

I've determined via trial and error that all of the circuits I've defined for pre-sets and for scheduling DO produce FC as long as they are above that 1650 threshold and the Chlorinator setting in ScreenLogic is above 0%. My main scheduling goal has been to always have the pump running at least at a slow rate...particularly from 8AM to 9 PM at peak electric rates...and having a higher speed filtering surge for a few hours when rates go down.

To that end I've tweaked my schedule with overlapping 24 hour schedules for "Pool Low" 8A-8A @ 1750 rpm where FC is produced, NoFC 8:15A-8:15A @ 1500 which is below the slow/No Flow indicator on the SWG and HiFlow 9:30P-11:45P @ 2750. This way unless someone manually turns off BOTH "Pool Low" and "NoFC" the pump will always be running. I understand that it WILL generate FC at this rate as "Pool Slow" takes precedence as the higher rpm. If I feel I need to turn off FC production I can just turn off "Pool Slow" manually and let the "NoFC" setting take over until the clock hits the Pool Slow start time again in the AM. I've also defined a "Swim" circuit @ 2250 rpm so we can manually boost circulation and filtering at the push of a button as needed if the pool is seeing heavy usage.

One question I have about my IC4 and SWG cells in general...with a Cl % set at a given level does running the pump at a higher speed produce more FC than if running it at the same Cl % at a lower speed? That is, If I set the IC40 to 35% will it generate more FC at 2000 rpm than at 1700 rpm? This is our first salt system so the specifics of how it operates is not fully clear to me yet.

I haven't found that balance point yet where my Cl level is mostly the same from day to day and I'm trying to understand the limits of my equipment in managing my FC towards that end (fully understanding that a host of other factors will contribute to FC consumption and degradation).

 

[Jimrahbe]

Now with the panel programmed I can more fully manage the FC output via the ScreenLogic app but I still like the idea of having a pre-set defined that lets me run the filter but without generating FC.

If you only turn on your NoFC circuit, your cell should be off. This is because you are not in the Pool or Spa mode. If your cell has any power with just the NOFC circuit on, then something is wrong. Either you are in the Pool or Spa mode or your cell is not wired correctly. As a test, just turn on the NoFC circuit and look at the cell and see if you have any lights, if you do, see if you are also in the pool or spa mode. Please let me know what you find.

My point is you should not have to use the speed of the pump to control if chlorine is being made or not.

The cell either makes chlorine or it does not. Once the flow switch is closed, the speed of the pump has nothing to do with how much chlorine is being made.

You can never set the cell's output so that your FC will be "perfect" each. Each day has different weather and bather loads etc. My recommendation is to try to maintain your Target FC or higher. Some people try to keep their FC between their minimum and target FC levels. That is just too much work for me. I set my SWCG's output so that my FC stays at my target or higher. I look at the minimum as a cliff I never want to fall off.

See the saltwater section of this chart... FC/CYA Levels


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Steve-D]

Thanks Jim.
I did test running the pump only at my "No FC" (1500 rpm) circuit setting and it tripped the Slow/No Flow light on the IC40. I assume that means both that :
1. The IC40 has power, and
2. No FC is produced because flow is below what is needed for the IC40.

Similarly I ran my "HiFlow" (2750 rpm) which I had to configure under "Features" (because it wouldn't give me "show in pool" as an option) as standalone and it, too showed green lights on the IC40.

As best I can tell EVERYTHING except maybe the "Cleaner" circuit (for the booster pump) and the "Lights" circuits are wired into "Pool Mode." In ScreenLogic Config all of those "Circuits" I have defined/customized for a specific rpm...all of them are configured with "Load Center" set to "Main" in the "Setup.

When I say "Circuits" I am also only referring to what I see as available for configuration within the ScreenLogic Config app. I have no knowledge of the physical wiring done in the panel itself so I don't know if we are speaking the same language when we refer to "Circuits."

[further edits]
That is to say that ALL of the circuits I have defined seem to be in "Pool Mode" and when running the IC40 will show green lights , EXCEPT for the "NoFC" circuit I defined which runs at 1500 rpm...that one show the IC40 red light slow/no flow indicator if no other higher speed pump setting is also running at that time.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

If you look at your EasyTouch pic in post # 3, that is how it should look when only running the NoFC circuit. The system will not be in the Pool mode or Spa mode. This is easy when letting the schedule turn things on and off. I suspect the problem is that when you are testing things out, you are manually pushing the "F" button to start the pump. Unfortunately, this will put the system in the Pool mode. You can tell by looking at ScreenLogic, as the Pool icon will be green, or the little display on the main panel will show "Pool" below the word auto.

As another test, you can turn off the Green Pool icon in ScreenLogic and see if the power to the cell shuts off, when just NoFC is running.

Another test... When you put your system into Service Mode, does the cell have any lights on? It should be completely off.

If the cell has any lights in the Service mode, it is wired wrong. If it does, show me some pics of the inside of the EasyTouch

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

I have no idea why Pentair uses the word "Circuits" which to me mean an electrical path, but that is not exactly how Pentair uses it.

Your EasyTouch comes from the factory with a predefined set of what Pentair calls "Circuits". They are as follows:

Pool
Spa
Aux 1
Aux 2
Aux 3
Aux 4 through 7 if you have an EasyTouch 8
Feature #1 through 8
(plus a couple of odd ball ones that don't matter here)

If you want something to happen, you have to use at least one of those circuits. It is easy to remember what the Pool and Spa circuits are for, but Aux 1 could be use for anything, so Pentair lets you add a "Circuit Name". This circuit name does not change anything.. Aux 1 is always Aux 1, but you can name it anything you want. Naming it does not change what it does, it is always Aux 1

In some cases you can make a circuit do special things, by adding a "Circuit Function". It is best in most cases to leave the Circuit Function as Generic, but in the case of lights, it makes sense to use a lights function like "IntelliBrite"

In general, Aux circuits are used when you need to be able to control a device by turning its electrical power on and off. All Aux circuits have a corresponding relay.

Feature Circuits are just like Aux circuits but they do not have a relay, so they can't control 120 volt or 240 volt power, but they can control other things. Feature Circuits can control pump speed, and valve movements.

Below is a list of my circuits. I show it only because if you look at the headings and then at the list of circuits, it gives you a good idea how "Circuits" "Circuit Names" and "Circuit Functions", all link together.

Set up page 2.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 8, 2020

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Steve-D]

@Jimrahbe...
I installed the Windows ScreenLogic app and the one question I have is how do I fix the "Forecast" on the Home Screen? Info looks right on the "History" tab but the forecast is all wrong...not sure where its picking up its data but it sure doesn't seem to be by zip code. Does something need to be entered in the "Weather Params" field?

[edit] NEVER MIND...I Found it.
For me the local weather office is at Boston / Norton, MA and entering that fixed it.
Corrected:

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

I am glad you got yours working. Everything else works perfect, but my weather has not worked in months, and I have manually updated it many times. Once it a great while, it will work for a day or so then it gets stuck again. Sigh!

Send me exactly what is in your weather "Field" and I'll try your weather and see what happens.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Steve-D]

[edit #2]

UGH...I just checked and it is doing the same thing again so who knows how this is supposed to be configured or if it even works at all...
What I posted supposedly fixing it (but no longer working) is:

For me I entered:
https://www.weather.gov/box/
...where "box" is my local office.



I found that on weather.gov by searching for my local NWS Local Forecast office and copied the URL for that office page. I did a search for Bedford TX (in your profile) and it looks like your local NWS forecast office is Dallas-Ft Worth (https://www.weather.gov/fwd/) so you may want to try using that.

[edit] The forum software really wants to "unfold" the URLs...took a bit to figure out how to display them without the software converting it into its related descriptive text.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

Originally, when you entered your zip code into ScreenLogic, it would auto-populate the weather location data.

It worked great for years. Then Pentair did something and it now no longer works.

I can sometimes manually enter the data and it will sometimes work. When it does work, it will last for a day to a few weeks and then, it goes bad again.

Pentair knows about the problem, they just don't care.

Thanks,

Jim R.