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redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
I know your main focus seems to be on pH right now and you are getting good advice there, but I wanted you ask you a little more about your chlorine consumption. Is there a particular reason you are raising FC to SLAM level every day? You mentioned you have higher FC consumption than you felt should be happening, but before this started did you have any signs of algae? (water a little cloudy, "dust/dirt" accumulation that poofs when you brush it, visible algae on the walls or floor of your pool...) I'm just wondering if you may have also been dealing with the start of an algae outbreak which would explain the higher chlorine consumption. If not, then it could just be that chlorine burns off faster at higher FC/CYA ratios or that your CYA level is not high enough to protect your FC from the desert sun.
Now that I have the TA down the FC consumption has dropped to about 1 - 2 a day, before I was hitting SLAM level just to get through the next days burn about 6 - 8 a day. CYA has been steady and I have not added. Days are getting shorted and the pool is starting to cool down (90 - 86) a bit that may also be playing a factor.

Pretty sure I am not dealing with algea since FC is holding at night and CC of .5 is only occasional.

We have had a few visits by monsoon so dust and tree debris may also be a factor.
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Every time I forget to set an alarm while topping off the pool I end up with an infinity edge surprise. So my readings tonight are a little off from dilution.

Test 21:00 9/5/19
FC - 2.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.0
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.61 (pool math)

21:30 9/5/19 Add 8 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 6)
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Still holding for Ph 8+ here is the latest:

Test 12:00 9/6/19
FC - 3.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.4
Alk - 75
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.19 (pool math)
One thing does't have anything to do with the other.
I am not debating, not a chemist, I am new to this, but I am simply telling you my observations maybe its how TA supports CYA or PH TA and CYA, whatever. The numbers are what they are and as my TA goes down, so does my FC consumption.

Look at the numbers and draw your own conclusion:

Tap / Fill Water - FC 0 / Ph 7.8 / Alk 150

Test 19:30 9/1/19
FC - 4
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 80
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.06 (pool math)

Added 19 oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 13)

Test 23:30 9/1/19
FC - 12.5
CC - .5
Ph - 8+
Alk - 80
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = 0.43 (pool math)

Test 06:30 9/2/19
FC - 12.5
CC - .0
Ph - 8+
Alk - 90
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = 0.48 (pool math)

Test 12:00 9/2/19
FC - 7
CC - .0
Ph - 7.8
Alk - 80
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = 0.29 (pool math)

12:15 9/2/19 Added 29 fl oz of 28.3% muriatic acid (Target Ph 7.2)

Test 20:00 9/2/19
FC - 5
CC - .5
Ph - 7.4
Alk - 75
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.19 (pool math)

20:30 9/2/19 Added 11 fl oz of 73% calhypo (Target FC 10)

Test 12:00 9/3/19
FC - 6.5
CC - .5
Ph - 7.8
Alk - 80
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = 0.23 (pool math)

12:30 9/3/19 Added 37 fl oz of 28.3% muriatic acid (Target Ph 7.1)

Test 21:00 9/3/19
FC - 5.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.2
Alk - 65
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.45 (pool math)

21:15 9/3/19 Add 6 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 8)

Test 12:00 9/4/19
FC - 5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.03 (pool math)

12:30 9/3/19 Added 28 fl oz of 28.3% muriatic acid (Target Ph 7.1)

Test 21:00 9/4/19
FC - 5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.2
Alk - 60
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.49 (pool math)

21:30 9/4/19 Add 2 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 6)

Test 12:00 9/5/19
FC - 4
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 60
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.11 (pool math)

16:00 9/5/19 Accidental overfill with tap water

Test 21:00 9/5/19
FC - 2.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.0
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.61 (pool math)

21:30 9/5/19 Add 8 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 6)

Test 12:00 9/6/19
FC - 3.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.4
Alk - 75
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.19 (pool math)

Test 22:00 9/6/19
FC - 2.0
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.03 (pool math)

22:30 9/6/19 Add 9 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 6)
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Here is the latest:

Test 22:00 9/6/19
FC - 2.0
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.03 (pool math)

22:30 9/6/19 Add 9 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 6)
 

frogabog

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
The TA test differences are probably testing error. Are you wiping the tip of the bottle between drops with a damp cloth? Static electricity can affect the drop size.

I'd suggest stopping testing TA every time you test. Let it be. Test it weekly. It's fine. Ease your mind.

Drop pH down to 7.4 when you hit 8.
 

aeh0603

Well-known member
Apr 6, 2016
237
San Diego, CA
I am not debating, not a chemist, I am new to this, but I am simply telling you my observations maybe its how TA supports CYA or PH TA and CYA, whatever. The numbers are what they are and as my TA goes down, so does my FC consumption.
I think what everyone is trying to explain to you is that the correlation between FC and TA that you noticed in your testing is happenstance not cause and effect. Your FC consumption likely decreased due to repeatedly brining your FC up to SLAM level. You probably had the start of an algae bloom but caught it super early so never really saw green. Bringing your FC up killed the algae and your consumption rate went down.

TA only really has an effect on pH. At higher TA values, your pH will rise faster. pH naturally rises, when you add acid to lower the pH, TA also lowers a little. Topping off your pool with higher TA fill water or adding chemicals like baking soda will raise TA. TA also plays a role in the CSI calculation but CSI is a bit off topic for this thread so I won't go into that.

It's like if you put a cake in the oven and cleaned your house while it baked. You may notice that the cleaner your house got the more the cake cooked. Both activities are happening in your house, and you could even prove they were happening at the same time, but cleaning your house doesn't really have any relationship to how cooked your cake is.
 

RodRamos

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2019
118
Trinity, Florida
...when you add acid to lower the pH, TA also lowers a little.

Both activities are happening in your house, and you could even prove they were happening at the same time, but cleaning your house doesn't really have any relationship to how cooked your cake is.
First off, thank you for that explanation, I learned something new today. I did notice last time I added acid because my pH was too high, TA went up a bitalomg with the pH. Wasnt sure if it was coincidence or not but now I know why that happened.

Second, thanks for making me hungry for cake.
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Just checking. :cheers:
Sorry, here is the latest:

Pool Store Test 12:00 9/7/19
FC - 3
CC - 0
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 80
CYA - 30
Calcium - 200
Total Disolved Solids - 1300
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.05 (pool math)

Test 16:00 9/7/19
FC - 1
CC - .5
Ph - 7.6
Alk - 70
CYA - 30
Calcium - 250
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = -0.03 (pool math)

16:30 9/7/19 Add 26 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (SLAM Target FC 13)

Test 18:30 9/8/19
FC - 3.5
CC - 0
Ph - 7.7
Alk - 70
Water Temp - 86 °F
CSI = 0.07 (pool math)

20:30 9/8/19 Add 10 fl oz of 73% CalHypo (Target FC 8)
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
10,809
Northern NJ
Your FC should never fall below your minimum of 2 for CYA 30. See FC/CYA Chart

You need to add more FC each day so it stays above the minimum. Otherwise algae that you cannot see will take hold in your water and begin consuming your FC.
 

frogabog

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
I'm so confused...

Are you SLAM or not?

The test results and targets you're showing are all over the place.

If you are SLAM, you maintain SLAM FC level.

If you are not SLAM, you make sure you don't fall below minimum every day, which means you aim for Target at least once a day.
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Your FC should never fall below your minimum of 2 for CYA 30. See FC/CYA Chart

You need to add more FC each day so it stays above the minimum. Otherwise algae that you cannot see will take hold in your water and begin consuming your FC.
Target did not carry me through the day like it was earlier in the week, I drooped below 2 so I slammed and then added 2 to the target. Apparently it is a moving target can only do what I can do.
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
I'm so confused...

Are you SLAM or not?

The test results and targets you're showing are all over the place.

If you are SLAM, you maintain SLAM FC level.

If you are not SLAM, you make sure you don't fall below minimum every day, which means you aim for Target at least once a day.
Target did not carry me through the day like it was earlier in the week, I drooped below 2 so I slammed and then added 2 to the target. Apparently it is a moving target can only do what I can do.
 

redjeep61

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
34
Phoenix, AZ
Very perceptive, so that is the whole reason for this post, why are my results all over the place. Just looking to stabilize but TA / Ph are constantly moving, and no I am not adding acid. FC consumption is not related to TA / Ph but for some reason the higher they go the more chlorine required to get through the next day.
 

frogabog

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 16, 2010
2,833
Portland, Oregon
Adding FC to SLAM level once is not the SLAM Process.

If you're losing that much FC per day without any swimmers (target not enough to not fall below minimum), the chlorine is battling something. You need to do a real SLAM. Bring FC up to SLAM level for your CYA level, test and maintain SLAM level at least 3 times a day, if not more. Brush often. When you stop losing FC between testings and the water is crystal clear, do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. If you pass the OCLT, you can stop your SLAM.

I suggest using liquid chlorine instead of the cal-hypo for SLAM.