New pool with UV and SWG - consistent high PH level

[darrel.nguyen]

Hi all, this is my first post so pool experts, please dont chew me out...?
We had our in-ground pool constructed last year with a UV and SWG systems along with 14 water features (6 fire/water bowls, 3 separated water descent (12 total ft), 4 deck jets, and a spillway).
Is the constant high PH due to all the aeration from the water features? Also, the UV (Solaxx/Renaissance) suck in air and that might also be the cause?
I was told the UV helps kill little bacteria and water is safer for kids (myth or true?).
The UV won't affect much on the SWG since it's connected after the heater, which is after the filter, before the SWG so the generated chlorine would re-enter the pool.
My main concern is the high PH level. What is the best way to maintain an appropriate level of PH without lowering the TA (for my pool)? I tried muriatic acid to lower the PH, which works, but noticed it drop my TA way low so had to add TA increaser (sodium bicarbonate) to bring up the TA level, but now the PH is high again. Please advise. Thank you.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Darrel, now why would we fuss at you!? Welcome to TFP!! Glad to have you here!
<if I were going to fuss it would only be cuz you describe a gorgeous pool yet didn't share a picture! we love pics!>

Your water features are most likely the culprit...unless you're keeping your TA up higher than necessary? A high TA will pull a pH up time and again.

Can you tell us what your TA is? Actually a full panel of test results would be ideal-
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Your UV is pretty worthless...you live in California- Dont'cha get a lot of UV free from the sun?? But I'm unclear how it might be boosting the pH. Someone smart might chirp in and tell us.

Maddie

 

[IceShadow]

Keep in mind that the industry standard recommendation of TA is for pools being chlorinated with pucks, which are highly acidic. So, the industry standard recommendation is high to counteract the constant release of low pH from the pucks.

If your TA is 50 or higher you are fine and don't need to adjust it.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Ice, he has an SWG...no pucks are in use that I'm aware of.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Darrel,

Your water features are the primary cause of your pH increase, but I also suspect a couple of other things..

1. Most SWCG pools like their pH to be about 7.8 or so... My guess is you are trying to keep it at 7.4...

2. Any TA above 50 is fine... My guess is that you are trying to keep your TA above 80.. most likely around 100..

They don't tell you the many downsides to water features when they sell you a pool, do they??

A residential UV system in an outdoor, is next to useless... It will have very little effect one way or the other..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[IceShadow]

Ice, he has an SWG...no pucks are in use that I'm aware of.

I know - I was explaining why he might be thinking his TA needs to be higher than it really needs to be.

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Darrel, now why would we fuss at you!? Welcome to TFP!! Glad to have you here!
<if I were going to fuss it would only be cuz you describe a gorgeous pool yet didn't share a picture! we love pics!>

Your water features are most likely the culprit...unless you're keeping your TA up higher than necessary? A high TA will pull a pH up time and again.

Can you tell us what your TA is? Actually a full panel of test results would be ideal-
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Your UV is pretty worthless...you live in California- Dont'cha get a lot of UV free from the sun?? But I'm unclear how it might be boosting the pH. Someone smart might chirp in and tell us.

Maddie

Darrel, now why would we fuss at you!? Welcome to TFP!! Glad to have you here!
<if I were going to fuss it would only be cuz you describe a gorgeous pool yet didn't share a picture! we love pics!>

Your water features are most likely the culprit...unless you're keeping your TA up higher than necessary? A high TA will pull a pH up time and again.

Can you tell us what your TA is? Actually a full panel of test results would be ideal-
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Your UV is pretty worthless...you live in California- Dont'cha get a lot of UV free from the sun?? But I'm unclear how it might be boosting the pH. Someone smart might chirp in and tell us.

Maddie

Sorry. I tried to upload the pic of the pool, but the size is too large for this site. Will try later.
Will run another test later when i get home today. The TA was at 30 yesterday so i added 10 lbs of the TA increaser...dont know how much it
will increase yet.

 

[darrel.nguyen]

I know - I was explaining why he might be thinking his TA needs to be higher than it really needs to be.

Thank you both. So, are we saying the TA level can be slightly lower than the recommended level for a SWG pool? What would be acceptable level for a SWG pool? Btw, i do add a tablet here and there when the test suggested low C or FC level?

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Darrel,

Your water features are the primary cause of your pH increase, but I also suspect a couple of other things..

1. Most SWCG pools like their pH to be about 7.8 or so... My guess is you are trying to keep it at 7.4...

2. Any TA above 50 is fine... My guess is that you are trying to keep your TA above 80.. most likely around 100..

They don't tell you the many downsides to water features when they sell you a pool, do they??

A residential UV system in an outdoor, is next to useless... It will have very little effect one way or the other..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,
What they tell you is add as many features as you desired. You dont have to use them if you dont want to, but you cant add them once the pool is built or very expensive to add afterward. My wife actually luv all the water features and have them run almost 24 hrs. Lol

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Sorry. I tried to upload the pic of the pool, but the size is too large for this site. Will try later.
Will run another test later when i get home today. The TA was at 30 yesterday so i added 10 lbs of the TA increaser...dont know how much it
will increase yet.

 

[IceShadow]

You do want to keep TA at 50 to prevent the pH from sudden swings. So if you're at 30, I understand the need to increase it.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Don't bother buying pool store expensive "Alkalinity Increaser" as that is nothing more than Baking Soda! Yup! Which you can buy much cheaper in large 7# bags at Walmart.

You can determine how much to add based on current and desired levels by inputting that all in to PoolMath. The App or webpage will help you enormously.

And yeahhhhh.... I can see now why you have a little pH issue, LOL. That's a lot of water features!

Maddie

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Don't bother buying pool store expensive "Alkalinity Increaser" as that is nothing more than Baking Soda! Yup! Which you can buy much cheaper in large 7# bags at Walmart.

You can determine how much to add based on current and desired levels by inputting that all in to PoolMath. The App or webpage will help you enormously.

And yeahhhhh.... I can see now why you have a little pH issue, LOL. That's a lot of water

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Thanks Maddie.
TA Increaser are actually baking soda and would work the same...to increase the TA and would not have any other negative chemical reactions? (I.e. cause the SWG to explode or something? I am a chicken when it comes to messing with chemicals?).

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Take a look at this article -- Recommended Pool Chemicals - Trouble Free Pool
In California, your water characteristics should not need you adding baking soda aka alkalinity increaser.
Only chemicals you should need are muriatic acid, CYA/stabilizer, salt, and liquid chlorine, when needed.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Darrel,

That is a great looking pool...

If those things run 24/7, then you need to buy your MA by the truck load and you might also want to pick up some ear defenders..

I can see why your wife wants them running...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Welcome to the forum!
Take a look at this article -- Recommended Pool Chemicals - Trouble Free Pool
In California, your water characteristics should not need you adding baking soda aka alkalinity increaser.
Only chemicals you should need are muriatic acid, CYA/stabilizer, salt, and liquid chlorine, when needed.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.
[/QUOTE

Welcome to the forum!
Take a look at this article -- Recommended Pool Chemicals - Trouble Free Pool
In California, your water characteristics should not need you adding baking soda aka alkalinity increaser.
Only chemicals you should need are muriatic acid, CYA/stabilizer, salt, and liquid chlorine, when needed.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

Thank you MK. Great articles. I had to add the TA increaser because i think i added a bit too much MA to lower the high PH. When i retest the next day, i realized the TA level was at 30 (confirmed multiple times using pool master test kit and some test strips). I got the TA back up to 70 now, but the PH is up again..near 8.2 ?.

 

[darrel.nguyen]

Based on the few responses, it appears my consistently high pH level is due to all the water features (aeration), the SWG, and possibly the Solaxx UV/Ozone system with the air intake.

Is the UV/Ozone system really doesn't do anything other than increase the pH? Should we just have it removed? We already paid for it so just some extra cost to have it removed.

My biggest challenge is HOW to lower the pH level without lowering the TA level. (Can't really tell wifee she cannot play with her phone and adjust those variable pumps on the water features while she has her English tea?).

If i use too much MA to lower the pH, it also lower the TA level, then i have to raise the TA, which also raise the pH (main reason for this post). What would be the best approach/solution to frequently lower the pH level and have minimal impact on TA? Any advices would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[frogabog]

Hi Darrel,

Is there any way she can not run them 24hr? Are there any times she isn't near the pool that she can turn them all off? Those are surely going to be the main source of the high pH. The SWG is some, the air vent is some... but the water features are in all likelihood what's causing your issues.

If she can remember to turn them when she's away and overnight, it'll help you quite a bit. In fact, unless she wants the pool to become scaled with calcium, she will have to give up water features whenever she doesn't actually need them running. It's fine to enjoy them when she wants of course, although you will have to add acid any time your pH rises to 8. There's no way around that, I'm afraid. Raising your TA will help stabilize your pH some but most pools have to have acid added once to a few times a week.

Can you bypass and turn off the Ozone/UV with the air vent or do you have to actually remove it? The SWG does raise pH some as well. I don't think that even if you turned both those off and still ran the water features 24/7 that you'd get much relief from the rising pH.

What are you testing your water with? You're giving us somewhat vague levels by saying high or low which indicates you're not using a FAS/DPD test kit. Are you using strips? If so, please know they are complete junk. Garbage... not even fit for the trash utterly and completely useless. We aren't able to help you much if at all without a good test kit unfortunately because they simply are too inaccurate. I suggest getting a proper test kit on order ASAP. See Test Kits Compared. We generally recommend the better deal/best kit which is the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net. You can also get the Taylor K-2006C (make sure to get the C) but it's still got less reagents than the TF-100 and is actually more expensive.

Something else to do is to take some time to read Pool School, paying particular attention to the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry.

Insofar as your pH/TA dilemma, yes you will be chasing your tail trying to raise TA and lower pH as you've been doing. Due to the fact that you've got a plaster pool, you should pay particular attention to your CSI. See Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) - Trouble Free Pool and search the forum for more specific advice. Here again, you do need a proper test kit.

Pool Math is your friend, have you used that yet?

 

[duraleigh]

Very nice pool. You need a very nice acid feeder to go with it.!