New Pool Startup - Chemistry

[BDY]

Hi all,

(edit - if this is in the wrong thread let me know and I will move it)

After a long time coming, we finished and filled the pool finally! I will try and post pictures sometime of the finished build on the other thread.

The pool was filled with untreated city water, and now is connected via the autofill to our softened house water. After 10 days of doing their startup, the pool builder handed us over the pool yesterday. They will come back on March 20th to salt the pool and turn on the SWGC, so all of the below is pending that occuring. They have had me running the pump 9 hours a day at 2750 rpm (roughly 4.5x turnover if the GPM is right) and brushing twice a day. I turned the pump down today to 1500 rpm as a test.

I went through the first chemistry test with the pool technician before they left and this is the first results using a Taylor K2005 kit.

• Pool temp: 69 F
• Chlorine: 10+ (off the scale)
• PH: 8+ (off the scale)
• TA: 70
• CYA: 60-70
• CH: 180
• Borate: TBD test kit

The technician said because it was in startup phase and they had shocked it, that CL and PH would read high for a while. It was an acid based startup... and they also put pucks in the skimmers which are almost gone.

My questions if anyone would be kind to answer:
1) Do I start adjusting now or wait for the SWGC and salt install?
2) If I start adjusting, do i wait for CL and PH to come down into range per the technician or is he incorrect? I didnt think a shock would affect Ph...
3) If I understand the chemistry, CL and PH are high, the TA and CYA are ok, and CH is low. Should I be looking at the here and now given we are not using the pool yet due to temps and wait for the SWGC chemistry, or target the future chemistry levels to be appropriate for a SWGC?
4) How do you test for CL and PH levels when they are above the range of the test panel?
4) Any other thoughts on the chemistry?

I have the TF-100 kit on the way along with their Ph meter and Taylor borate strips, I hope that helps with being able to read the levels that are above the scale.


thanks much and war m regards,
I look forward to being active in this community!

regards
Brian

 

[Newdude]

Hey Brian and Congrats !!!! I'll hold you to your word about them pictures.

1) Do I start adjusting now or wait for the SWGC and salt install?

You need the TF-100 for the fas/dpd powder FC test. The comparator block test is too inaccurate over 3ppm. But. Your FC is at or above target range so you're OK until it comes down.

With soft fill water, you'll want to get the CH up in the 300s but hold tight for a plaster pro to advise here because I'm a vinyl guy.

Bromate: 20~ (had to dilute it and multiply to get a reading, it was off the first scale)

Although it's a test in your 2005, this test isn't for you. It's a either/or thing with chlorine and bromine.

2) If I start adjusting, do i wait for CL and PH to come down into range per the technician or is he incorrect? I didnt think a shock would affect Ph...

10+ FC invalidates the PH test so just wait for the FC to fall on its own and hopefully the TF100 comes before then.

The other tests aren't affected by FC. Ch for example is fine to adjust now, if I'm on the right track for your target.

4) How do you test for CL and PH levels when they are above the range of the test panel

It's not worth the trouble for either test to dilute them in the comparator block. It makes them too inaccurate.

 

[BDY]

Thanks so much!

I have the TF100 arriving tomorrow and will repost the chemistry!

I realized I said “bromate” when I meant “Borate” .

I misread the test kit to think it had the borate test in it. I have the borate test kit arriving tomorrow too. I had it supposed to remove the reference to bromine.

 

[ajw22]

Turnover has no meaning or consideration for your pool care.

Turnover of Pool Water - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

With CYA of 60+ your pool is safe to swim up to FC of 24.

Once you get your TF-100 and can confirm your FC level then go swim.

Borates are not naturally in watery. If you did not add borates then there is no reason to test for it.

We recommend you live with a pool for a year and then decide if borates are needed.

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

@ajw22 what's your pick to raise CH to with softened fill water not raising it further ? 350 ?

 

[BDY]

With CYA of 60+ your pool is safe to swim up to FC of 24.

Once you get your TF-100 and can confirm your FC level then go swim.

Borates are not naturally in watery. If you did not add borates then there is no reason to test for it.

We recommend you live with a pool for a year and then decide if borates are needed.

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks! Will read that again. I was under the impression that the borates would help control the Ph rise naturally caused by the SWGC. Maybe I misunderstood that part of the SWGC reading?

 

[ajw22]

Thanks! Will read that again. I was under the impression that the borates would help control the Ph rise naturally caused by the SWGC. Maybe I misunderstood that part of the SWGC reading?

Dont try and fix a problem you don’t know if you have yet. Not everyone needs borates. And borates is not a silver bullet.

First keep your water chemistry at recommended levels and see what the effects are.

 

[ajw22]

@ajw22 what's your pick to raise CH to with softened fill water not raising it further ? 350 ?

I would start with 300 CH and see what the CH is in October.

 

[BDY]

Dont try and fix a problem you don’t know if you have yet. Not everyone needs borates. And borates is not a silver bullet.

First keep your water chemistry at recommended levels and see what the effects are.

Good point… I’m getting ahead of myself … is my newbie title showing yet lol…?

 

[Newdude]

I’m getting ahead of myself … is my newbie title showing yet lol…?

We all had to learn man. You're doing great. It takes a minute. Lol.

 

[BDY]

Good afternoon all

So the TF100 test kit arrived, and I did a new set of tests using the FAS/DPD method (the powder) as well as a pH meter & drops.

The new results for today are:

• Pool temp: 71 F
• Chlorine: 6.5
• PH: 8.5
• TA: 70
• CYA: 60-70
• CH: 180

If I understand correctly, I have to get Ph down and CH up, and the rest are ok for now until the salt cell starts in a month?
Would I start with Ph and then CH?

Any other advice for starting?

thanks
Brian

 

[Newdude]

If I understand correctly, I have to get Ph down and CH up, and the rest are ok for now until the salt cell starts in a month?

Yes. Check the FC daily and ensure it never falls below target range for your CYA. We always round up so 61-70 is a 70. This is the liquid chlorine side of the FC chart. Once the SWG is running, it can be run lower once you understand it and know how it behaves for your pool. For now, some insurance FC is great.

Would I start with Ph and then CH?

Sure. Dose the PH as 8.2 (not 8.5 like the meter said) down to 7.6 per poolmath. Give it 20 mins to mix well and retest. Repeat as many times as needed to get PH in the 7s.

Then work on CH.

Any other advice for starting?

Yes. Keep us posted. Ask anything big or small if you're unsure of something. If you goof, we may have multiple problems to fix. And we will help with those too, but it's better for all parties to only have one task at hand.

 

[BDY]

Yes. Check the FC daily and ensure it never falls below target range for your CYA. We always round up so 61-70 is a 70. This is the liquid chlorine side of the FC chart. Once the SWG is running, it can be run lower once you understand it and know how it behaves for your pool. For now, some insurance FC is great.

View attachment 475461



Sure. Dose the PH as 8.2 (not 8.5 like the meter said) down to 7.6 per poolmath. Give it 20 mins to mix well and retest. Repeat as many times as needed to get PH in the 7s.

Then work on CH.



Yes. Keep us posted. Ask anything big or small if you're unsure of something. If you goof, we may have multiple problems to fix. And we will help with those too, but it's better for all parties to only have one task at hand.

Question on adding MA - the pool school talks about pouring from jug in front of a return. But when you are only adding, say, 1 cup, do you pour from bottle into measuring cup and then into pool? Or just guesstimate amount pouring from bottle in order to minimize the number of transfers. If measuring first, what is the best device to use ?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions.

 

[mknauss]

For my small volume pool, I use a plastic 2 cup measuring cup. I hold the bottle at the water line and pour the acid into the measuring cup. I dip the bottle in the water to dilute any drips.

 

[Newdude]

sorry for all the questions.

I TOLD you. Please. Ask.

And this is EXACTLY like I was talking about. Except it wouldn't have hurt anything no matter how you did it. Everybody has their way to measure, and nobody is wrong, but the widely accepted TFP rule is no glass poolside. Period.

So a plastic measuring cup is ok, or just eyeball it. It's going to be mixed into 9000 gallons for you so the add doesn't need to be exact for any of them. Close is close enough.

I will say though if you are pouring into a measuring device, do so where some drips wouldn't splotch your patio. Either over the pool or away in the grass/mulch somewhere.

 

[pjt]

do you pour from bottle into measuring cup and then into pool? Or just guesstimate amount pouring from bottle in order to minimize the number of transfers.

I would pour directly from the bottle into the pool. One cup is 8 fl oz. Visualize 2/3 of a soda can and pour that amount. Remember, you can always add more later if needed.

 

[BDY]

So i dosed the pool for MA and CL today. How long do you have to wait to retest normally… overnight?

Also, does it matter the time of day or the weather when you add the chemicals?

 

[ajw22]

So i dosed the pool for MA and CL today. How long do you have to wait to retest normally… overnight?

30 minutes with the pump running.

Also, does it matter the time of day or the weather when you add the chemicals?

No.

 

[BDY]

Update
Measured the Fc and pH again this morning using the powder test for FC and the comparator block and pH meter (from TFKits) for pH.

FC was 4, so added 2 cups 7.5% bleach per PoolMath. I was expecting it to be higher since I added bleach yesterday but it was lower. I guess the pool is using chlorine despite the low temperatures and low water temp?

pH was again off the comparator block. The meter settled at 8.5 again. I put a cup of MA in yesterday and it seems to have had no effect. Per Newdude’s advice above I took another half step and put 1 more cup of MA in today. Should I be expecting larger pH changes? I am assuming even if the meter isn’t calibrated (which i assume it is new) that the relative change would be shown on the meter but the MA yesterday seemed to do nothing.

Thanks again
Brian

Ps - the pool sock suggestion from another thread was excellent - huge difference …