New Pool Owner - Need Help Balancing Pool Chemicals

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jhasenfus94

Member
May 20, 2022
7
Lillington, NC
Hi,

I've got a 13,000 gallon inground pool on a permasalt system. I've added 80 lbs of salt and have had pool open now for 2 weeks. I know I'm dealing with TC, FC, pH, TA, Total Hardness, CYA, and Copper (Cu). My TA was 40 ppm for the first week and half and everything I read said to get TA at a good level....good level is a sliding scale as I see ranges all over the place and test strips categorize what is ok and ideal differently. But I knew at least that 40 ppm was low, so I added baking soda - 9.5 lbs of it over 2 days. TA and pH went up to 150+ ppm and pH 8.4, then both went down to 80-120 ppm and 7.8.

Here were my numbers at last test:
TA - 80-120. ppm
pH 7.8
TC - close to 0.
FC - close to 0.
Total Hardness - 250 ppm
CYA - 0

I then shocked pool with 9.1 ounces shock (Swim Best Super-CAL Shock, 73% Calcium Hypochlorite) and added 25 oz. of muriatic acid (HDX Muriatic Acid, 31.45% Hydrogen Chloride) to pool about an hour apart, and will wait to test again tomorrow morning. I know I need to get TA and pH in range in order to use CYA, and that CYA will raise TA. I have no CYA in my pool and all the FC from shock will burn off with these hot NC sunny days. Hoping that muriatic acid addition can lower TA and pH enough to where I can shock enough to get FC into acceptable range and then get CYA to 30 ppm. And FC levels close to 0 is not good or safe. Total Hardness and Copper have remained steady at 250 ppm and 0.5 ppm since opening pool.

Anyone see downfalls with this approach or have a better suggestion. I am new to balancing pool water and seems little more complicated than I knew before going into this.

Thanks!
 
Welcome to TFP!

To start off, you need a recommended test kit. See Test Kits Compared. Pool store tests are notoriously inaccurate and inconsistent. Test strips are even worse.

Please don't add anything to your pool based on the results of these tests.

Order a good test kit and check out the below articles while you wait. Once you get a test kit, post up a full set of results and we'll see where you're at thus far
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
FC/CYA Levels
Recommended Levels
 
You should not rely on Guess (test) strips. Well neither in pool store tests. You need a rollable test kit. Since you have a slat system you need to be able to test salt too. You should get one of the test kits below:
1 - TF-Pro *Salt with SmartStir-for pools with SWG
2 - TF-100 Test Kit ™ (the speed stir is really game changer) PLUS K-1766 Taylor Salt Test
3 - Service Complete™ kit for Chlorine, pH, Alkalinity, Hardness, CYA, Salt (FAS-DPD–high range) (2 oz bottles)
To know more about test kits: Test Kits Compared

Until you get a test kit you need to add 5ppm of Liquid Chlorine every evening. That is about 2/3 of a gallon of plain bleach (unscented non-Clorox). For other concentrations of LC use PoolMath

Some good reading:
www.troublefreepool.com

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
So purchased the Taylor K-2206C Test Kit. Here's my results:

pH = 7.6
Total Alkalinity (TA) = 80 ppm
Cyanuric Acid (CYA) = less than 30 ppm
Calcium Hardness = 110 ppm
No Free Chlorine.

FYI AquaCheck 7 test strips read ph = 7.4-7.6, TA = 40-80 ppm, CYA = 10-20 ppm, Total Hardness 100-250 ppm. Total & Free Chlorine = 0. I know it's recommended to use test kit and I now am, just was impressed that test strips were at least as accurate as they could be. Knowing the exact values though from test kit is important for adjustments.

Per Taylor readings, pH & TA are acceptable. I think I need to raise Calcium Hardness up by 40 ppm to acceptable 150-400 ppm range. And CYA in increments up to 30ppm. According to Taylor order of water balance adjustments should be pH then TA then Calcium. I need CYA up so I don't have to keep shocking. This heat is burning up all my chlorine. I'd assume Calcium gets adjusted first and then CYA? How long in between adjusting for the two - can I adjust for Calcium by adding calcium chloride, wait 24 hrs, then adjust for CYA?

Thanks
 
Your first order of business should be chlorine. Get 5ppm in there asap. As soon as that's in, add 10ppm of CYA. The TA and CH can wait until you can hold some FC. Run the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test as soon as you can to make sure that you are not brewing anything.

Also, fill out your signature with your pool type and equipment, test kit, etc. Some recommendations will rely on knowing more about your pool.
 
I shocked pool with 1 lb. Chlorox Pool Shock XtraBlue (72% Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione; 40% available chlorine). Raise my Total and Free Chlorine up to 3ppm. In order to increase CYA by 10 ppm (with Pool Mate Stabilizer and Conditioner), I calculated 16.25 oz. I added 12 oz. since the shock I use may or may not have CYA in it. I figure I can always add more CYA. With CYA & eventually Calcium Chloride, I'll add 75% of what's recommended to be safe since those two variables can only be decreased by draining pool water/backwash. I'll test before sun starts beating - there's no visual sign of algae and I've been shocking w/the only loss during the day due to UV rays. How long before CYA is mixed enough to get an accurate reading with test kit? I put dry granules in a sock and suspended submerged in skimmer basket.
 
heikejohn said:
XtraBlue ..... is the hidden additive for metal. You do not want to start battling metal stains.
Do your "Shocking" with regular bleach only.
Click to expand...
Anything with Blue in the name will most likely have copper in it. Copper is a very effective algaecide that remains in the water in the longer term (reason why cheap algaecides and blue products have it). The issues with copper go from staining pool surfaces to causing a green tinting in bather’s hairs/nails (specially on blondes).

Here at TFP we don’t shock pools the “traditional” way. If there is something growing in the pool we recommend bring the FC to Shock Level And Maintain (aka SLAM Process ). That is not a one and done like “traditional” shock.
 
MITBeta said:
The dichlor added about 3ppm of CYA.
Click to expand...
AK- said:
Anything with Blue in the name will most likely have copper in it. Copper is a very effective algaecide that remains in the water in the longer term (reason why cheap algaecides and blue products have it). The issues with copper go from staining pool surfaces to causing a green tinting in bather’s hairs/nails (specially on blondes).

Here at TFP we don’t shock pools the “traditional” way. If there is something growing in the pool we recommend bring the FC to Shock Level And Maintain (aka SLAM Process ). That is not a one and done like “traditional” shock.
Click to expand...
My TC and FC didn't go down by more than 1 ppm overnight after I shocked with the Chlorox Xtra Blue and my water has been clear for at least 3 weeks now so I don't have an algae problem - the FC is just burning up in the hot sun because my CYA is low. We have a PermaSalt system which is constantly introducing Copper through the distribution box already. I chose Chlorox Xtra Blue because it doesn't increase the pH like Cal-Hypo (my pH was high @ 7.8) and it has CYA in it (which I'm trying to increase). My pH is finally at 7.6 in range and CYA should be on the rise. Can someone please tell me how long after adding CYA can it be tested with Taylor testing kit and have it give an accurate reading?

I don't understand how adding Bleach which has a pH of 11-13 helps since that'd bring the pH back up and out of range, which make the chlorine less effective. It seems like people talk about SLAM all the time on this forum and that it is for pools that have algae, are just super cloudy, or otherwise in bad shape. I think all I need is CYA to get up to 30 ppm and then shock with non-CYA (unstabilized) chlorine weekly. Adding bleach is going to throw pH and Total Alkalinity out of whack which I just got back into range (pH = 7.6 and TA = 80). So guess my second question is: is SLAM really necessary here?

We are considering switching from PermaSalt (it's just what pool store sold to us) to something else. But I don't know what that something else should be. I think the PermaSalt box lasts 1-2 years, so would switch at that point since it looks likes over $1K for something else. So question 3 is: if not PermaSalt, then what do you switch to?
 

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Please read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. Much of what you posted above is categorically incorrect.
jhasenfus94 said:
adding Bleach which has a pH of 11-13 helps since that'd bring the pH back up and out of range,
Click to expand...
Bleach is pH neutral to the pool system.
jhasenfus94 said:
Adding bleach is going to throw pH and Total Alkalinity
Click to expand...
Incorrect, bleach does not add Alkalinity.
jhasenfus94 said:
Can someone please tell me how long after adding CYA can it be tested with Taylor testing kit and have it give an accurate reading?
Click to expand...
If added via the sock method using 100% granular CYA, once it is dissolved, it can be tested 24 hours later.
 
Ok, so add this using the SLAM process? The bleach picture I mean I sent by itself accidentally in my previous post.

The CYA is just about dissolved - used sock method in skimmer and worked with my hands to help it along; hanging at return to get dissolve the rest. I'll measure with Taylor test kit. SLAM says pH of 7.2 to 7.5 and mine is 7.6 so should I add muriatic acid before SLAMing?
 

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