Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
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New pool owner, first post, just getting started
- Thread starter joninnj
- Start date
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Welcome to TFP by the way!!
+1 re: AimeeH's comment to keep the skimmer basket in your skimmer when vacuuming. You want to keep the big stuff out of your plumbing. There should be a plate that goes on above the basket with a hole sized for a snug fit on your vacuum hose.
You can probably find a owner's manual / installation manual for your skimmers. In my case, the plate is removed when not vacuuming to avoid the vortex, reduce friction loss, and eliminate the suction risk of pulling water only through the small opening used for vacuuming. Skimmers can be set up better than mine is, so a manual for yours would be worthwhile reading. Or you can post pics here and the experts will fill you in.
Thursday is optimistic, but the shortest possible is if you hit it hard and MAINTAIN Shock FC.
Welcome to TFP by the way!!
+1 re: AimeeH's comment to keep the skimmer basket in your skimmer when vacuuming. You want to keep the big stuff out of your plumbing. There should be a plate that goes on above the basket with a hole sized for a snug fit on your vacuum hose.
You can probably find a owner's manual / installation manual for your skimmers. In my case, the plate is removed when not vacuuming to avoid the vortex, reduce friction loss, and eliminate the suction risk of pulling water only through the small opening used for vacuuming. Skimmers can be set up better than mine is, so a manual for yours would be worthwhile reading. Or you can post pics here and the experts will fill you in.
Thursday is optimistic, but the shortest possible is if you hit it hard and MAINTAIN Shock FC.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Unless I'm confused, you're draining about 50% of your water today to get to a CYA of 60, correct?
Since the pools new to you, I just want you to know that whenever draining a vinyl pool not to drain lower than a foot in the SHALLOW end. Be sure to close the skimmer valve, but not the drain valve, and set your multiport to waste.
Once you've refilled, ran the filter, and retested everything, then adjust your ph to 7.2, check the slam level you need in the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] - use Pool Math to calculate how much cal hypo to add to get to the target Slam FC and you're on your way
If you need refreshing on the Slam process, read up here: SLAM Process. I think you'll be in for a short slam and swimming in no time
Unless I'm confused, you're draining about 50% of your water today to get to a CYA of 60, correct?
Since the pools new to you, I just want you to know that whenever draining a vinyl pool not to drain lower than a foot in the SHALLOW end. Be sure to close the skimmer valve, but not the drain valve, and set your multiport to waste.
Once you've refilled, ran the filter, and retested everything, then adjust your ph to 7.2, check the slam level you need in the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] - use Pool Math to calculate how much cal hypo to add to get to the target Slam FC and you're on your way
If you need refreshing on the Slam process, read up here: SLAM Process. I think you'll be in for a short slam and swimming in no time
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Draining now but looking at your post at just the right time. When the water got below the skimmers, drain rate slowed down a lot, but then I saw your post and shut off the skimmer valves. Thanks! I may get down to 1.5 feet in the shallow end (of a 3 foot pool) both because I am nervous to go to low for my vinyl IG pool but also because I didn't look into whether I could get a break on sewer rates for a pool fill (it's Sunday, but I did take a picture of my water meter before starting the fill). And thanks for the encouragement. It feels a bit overwhelming right now...Unless I'm confused, you're draining about 50% of your water today to get to a CYA of 60, correct?
Since the pools new to you, I just want you to know that whenever draining a vinyl pool not to drain lower than a foot in the SHALLOW end. Be sure to close the skimmer valve, but not the drain valve, and set your multiport to waste.
Once you've refilled, ran the filter, and retested everything, then adjust your ph to 7.2, check the slam level you need in the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] - use Pool Math to calculate how much cal hypo to add to get to the target Slam FC and you're on your way
If you need refreshing on the Slam process, read up here: SLAM Process. I think you'll be in for a short slam and swimming in no time
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Before I started the drain, I vacuumed again (but before I found this post and the plate). Ot seemed a little better today, but I can't escape the feeling that it's just not as efficient as it should be. Could this be because:
1. Not enough suction? (I put a tennis ball in the second skimmer but didn't shut off the bottom drain.)
2. No plate (which I will try next time)?
3. Air getting into the system (I saw the hose float, maybe no plate allowed hose to pop out a little)?
4. Bad vacuum (I have one of these triangular vacuums with brushes on all three sides)?
5. Impatience of a newbie?
Thanks, all. Target is Memorial Day weekend.
I found the plate! One question on the plate: it seems to make the attachment possibly higher than the water level in the skimmer. Is this a problem to create or maintain a primed vacuum line?
Before I started the drain, I vacuumed again (but before I found this post and the plate). Ot seemed a little better today, but I can't escape the feeling that it's just not as efficient as it should be. Could this be because:
1. Not enough suction? (I put a tennis ball in the second skimmer but didn't shut off the bottom drain.)
2. No plate (which I will try next time)?
3. Air getting into the system (I saw the hose float, maybe no plate allowed hose to pop out a little)?
4. Bad vacuum (I have one of these triangular vacuums with brushes on all three sides)?
5. Impatience of a newbie?
Thanks, all. Target is Memorial Day weekend.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Can you shut off one skimmer?
I have a shut off valve for both skimmers and a main drain......3 valves. When vacuuming as I described using the plate, I fill my hose with water at a return, put the plate on the hose under water and walk it under water to the skimmer with the plate attached to hose and place over skimmer. Suction from there takes care keeping it in place.
I usually only shut off my main drain and have adequate suction without shutting off other skimmer.
Hope that helps.
Can you shut off one skimmer?
I have a shut off valve for both skimmers and a main drain......3 valves. When vacuuming as I described using the plate, I fill my hose with water at a return, put the plate on the hose under water and walk it under water to the skimmer with the plate attached to hose and place over skimmer. Suction from there takes care keeping it in place.
I usually only shut off my main drain and have adequate suction without shutting off other skimmer.
Hope that helps.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Yeah, I will try shutting off the drain and/or other skimmer. The problem with my plate, though, is that it doesn't fit into the skimmer, even without the vacuum hose attached. My only option is to put it on the skimmer basket and try to quickly attach the hose without letting in too much air, I think?
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Describe "doesn't fit the skimmer"?
If where the hose attaches puts it above the water line, it could suck air......bad. Attach it to the hose then place quickly over skimmer.
Describe "doesn't fit the skimmer"?
If where the hose attaches puts it above the water line, it could suck air......bad. Attach it to the hose then place quickly over skimmer.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
If I were to attach the hose to the plate and walk it over under water to the skimmer, the plate wouldn't fit through the skimmer opening at the side. It only fits in from the top over the skimmer basket.
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
I think what is meant here is that: vacuum plate doesn't fit through the skimmer intake (past the weir). AimeeH, sounds like your vacuum plate with vacuum hose attached can be fitted while keeping it underwater, so I can see where OP's interpretation might arise.
I think Jonathanuy's is the type where the vacuum plate goes inside the skimmer by reaching down through the deck opening. Jonathanuy, could you post a picture with the deck opening off, the basket in, and your vacuum plate sitting on the deck beside the skimmer's deck opening? No rush on this, because the pool needs to be refilled to halfway up the skimmer intake before vacuuming, and CYA reduction and SLAM are the priorities for now.
I think what is meant here is that: vacuum plate doesn't fit through the skimmer intake (past the weir). AimeeH, sounds like your vacuum plate with vacuum hose attached can be fitted while keeping it underwater, so I can see where OP's interpretation might arise.
I think Jonathanuy's is the type where the vacuum plate goes inside the skimmer by reaching down through the deck opening. Jonathanuy, could you post a picture with the deck opening off, the basket in, and your vacuum plate sitting on the deck beside the skimmer's deck opening? No rush on this, because the pool needs to be refilled to halfway up the skimmer intake before vacuuming, and CYA reduction and SLAM are the priorities for now.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Yes......I see our confusion here. Mine attaches from above deck. I walk it under water several feet then quickly pull it out and put in from top of skimmer to avoid getting air in the system. But......I was describing this as I did because like OP, if I were to attach the plate to the skimmer THEN attach hose, that might cause The skimmer to suck air.
I hope this clarifies attaching vacuum to skimmer with vacuum plate for you jonathanuy.
Sorry for the confusion and we are here to help.
Yes......I see our confusion here. Mine attaches from above deck. I walk it under water several feet then quickly pull it out and put in from top of skimmer to avoid getting air in the system. But......I was describing this as I did because like OP, if I were to attach the plate to the skimmer THEN attach hose, that might cause The skimmer to suck air.
I hope this clarifies attaching vacuum to skimmer with vacuum plate for you jonathanuy.
Sorry for the confusion and we are here to help.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
I think I have no choice except to put in the plate (from the top) and then pull in the hose through the simmer intake. Hope can do it without letting any air in. Here is the picture. Thoughts?
I think I have no choice except to put in the plate (from the top) and then pull in the hose through the simmer intake. Hope can do it without letting any air in. Here is the picture. Thoughts?
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
And as far as the drain and fill, I am getting impatient. It has even draining for ~4 hours, and the water is only down 8 inches. Started out like gangbusters when the water was still above the skimmer (valve on waste). Then Swampwoman suggested closing off the skimmers, and that seemed to increase outflow for a while, but it slowed down (but was still a steady amount). Then I added a garden house siphon about 1 1/2 hours ago.
I clearly am reluctant to let it keep draining overnight unmonitored (don't want to leave pump draining unmonitored, especially given the relatively slow drain rate; don't want risk of overdraining the vinyl pool; want to look into whether I can get a break on sewer charges with the pool fill).But any suggestions?
And as far as the drain and fill, I am getting impatient. It has even draining for ~4 hours, and the water is only down 8 inches. Started out like gangbusters when the water was still above the skimmer (valve on waste). Then Swampwoman suggested closing off the skimmers, and that seemed to increase outflow for a while, but it slowed down (but was still a steady amount). Then I added a garden house siphon about 1 1/2 hours ago.
I clearly am reluctant to let it keep draining overnight unmonitored (don't want to leave pump draining unmonitored, especially given the relatively slow drain rate; don't want risk of overdraining the vinyl pool; want to look into whether I can get a break on sewer charges with the pool fill).But any suggestions?
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Same setup as mine pretty much. I just attach the skimmer plate to the hose while keeping it under water then quickly get that plate in the hole in you picture that is from ABOVE the skimmer.
Don't get too frustrated. I was just as much as a newbie as you when we had our pool put in 2011.
To avoid that skimmer plate sucking air, I attach it to the hose after Filling hose with water from return. It is simply more difficult to fill hose with water if skimmer plate is already attached. Then when I walk it to the skimmer I quickly pull it out of the water and attach from top of skimmer......the opening pictured in your photo. It is a tight fit, and suction keeps it there. I don't get any noticeable air in my system this way.
Same setup as mine pretty much. I just attach the skimmer plate to the hose while keeping it under water then quickly get that plate in the hole in you picture that is from ABOVE the skimmer.
Don't get too frustrated. I was just as much as a newbie as you when we had our pool put in 2011.
To avoid that skimmer plate sucking air, I attach it to the hose after Filling hose with water from return. It is simply more difficult to fill hose with water if skimmer plate is already attached. Then when I walk it to the skimmer I quickly pull it out of the water and attach from top of skimmer......the opening pictured in your photo. It is a tight fit, and suction keeps it there. I don't get any noticeable air in my system this way.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
So you actually quickly pull out the hose (attached to plate) OUT off the water to place the plate over the top of the basket? Hose is then attached to the skimmer through the deck opening, not the water intake? The Youtube video's I watched all showed the hose going into the intake.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
To lower CYA.......the reason your draining? You can do several partial drains and refill and circulate water, test then drain some more, refill. Test water and drain more if necessary. It can be done in steps like that.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes. Picture of my vacuum hooked up.
To lower CYA.......the reason your draining? You can do several partial drains and refill and circulate water, test then drain some more, refill. Test water and drain more if necessary. It can be done in steps like that.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes. Picture of my vacuum hooked up.
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Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Yes, to lower CYA. Over 120. And thanks for the picture. Worth a thousand words!
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Just don't bring your vacuum head out of the water. That skimmer plate creates tight suction (or should). I wouldn't reccomend trying to remove the skimmer plate without turning off the pump to disrupt that suction (ask me how I know).
I turn off pump, remove skimmer plate, then turn pump back on. I also have two jet returns in a swim out bench. They disrupt the smooth surface of water so I find it easier to see bottom of pool if I turn those off as well while vacuuming. This way the water surface stays smooth unless there is wind.
Just don't bring your vacuum head out of the water. That skimmer plate creates tight suction (or should). I wouldn't reccomend trying to remove the skimmer plate without turning off the pump to disrupt that suction (ask me how I know).
I turn off pump, remove skimmer plate, then turn pump back on. I also have two jet returns in a swim out bench. They disrupt the smooth surface of water so I find it easier to see bottom of pool if I turn those off as well while vacuuming. This way the water surface stays smooth unless there is wind.
- Jan 4, 2016
- 5,392
- Pool Size
- 44000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
Same for me for manual vacuuming (over the pool edge and down into the skimmer, same as AimeeH, after removing most air from the vacuum hose. A bit of air is fine; your pump will clear it out. I also use a suction cleaner with the hose going through the skimmer intake (over the weir) and into it's own elbow fitting. Both ways are fine as long as the vacuum is sucking water and dust. Thanks for posting the pic.
As far as draining, if it were me, I'd give my pump a rest and siphon. You can use your vacuum hose for that if it will reach the low spot you are draining to. Attach the vacuum head and pole to keep it down in the water and put it in the pool nearest the low spot you're draining to. Put all the rest of the hose on the deck. Then push it all, hand over hand, straight down into the water so that it fills with water. Put your hand over the end so air can't get back in. Drag the free end down to the point that is lower than the pool water level, and take your hand off. The siphoning should start, or try again until it does.
If the vacuum hose isn't long enough, and you need to do it with the pump, we'll have to figure out why the pump is moving a lot less water. If your skimmers are fully closed off, it shouldn't be slowing down all that much. Slightly yes, yeh, because of the extra lift, but that alone shouldn't be a huge difference unless your pool is way lower than your pump. More likely, your pump is sucking air from a skimmer, which would drastically reduce what your pump can do. If it is, you'll see a fair bit of air flowing through the strainer basket on the pump, under the clear lid on the pump strainer.
If neither of those methods are working, you can buy a cheap sump pump and drop it in the pool. They're handy to have either way. I bought one that says it's OK for dirty water and I already had some outlet hose to run the water out of the way. For vinyl I would be careful that it doesn't drag around or scratch anything. Mine does have sharp right-angle edges that could be filed off to make it smoother on the bottom, or you could suspend it a little off the bottom with some rope and a 2 x 4 laid on the deck and stuck out a little past the edge of the coping.
Same for me for manual vacuuming (over the pool edge and down into the skimmer, same as AimeeH, after removing most air from the vacuum hose. A bit of air is fine; your pump will clear it out. I also use a suction cleaner with the hose going through the skimmer intake (over the weir) and into it's own elbow fitting. Both ways are fine as long as the vacuum is sucking water and dust. Thanks for posting the pic.
As far as draining, if it were me, I'd give my pump a rest and siphon. You can use your vacuum hose for that if it will reach the low spot you are draining to. Attach the vacuum head and pole to keep it down in the water and put it in the pool nearest the low spot you're draining to. Put all the rest of the hose on the deck. Then push it all, hand over hand, straight down into the water so that it fills with water. Put your hand over the end so air can't get back in. Drag the free end down to the point that is lower than the pool water level, and take your hand off. The siphoning should start, or try again until it does.
If the vacuum hose isn't long enough, and you need to do it with the pump, we'll have to figure out why the pump is moving a lot less water. If your skimmers are fully closed off, it shouldn't be slowing down all that much. Slightly yes, yeh, because of the extra lift, but that alone shouldn't be a huge difference unless your pool is way lower than your pump. More likely, your pump is sucking air from a skimmer, which would drastically reduce what your pump can do. If it is, you'll see a fair bit of air flowing through the strainer basket on the pump, under the clear lid on the pump strainer.
If neither of those methods are working, you can buy a cheap sump pump and drop it in the pool. They're handy to have either way. I bought one that says it's OK for dirty water and I already had some outlet hose to run the water out of the way. For vinyl I would be careful that it doesn't drag around or scratch anything. Mine does have sharp right-angle edges that could be filed off to make it smoother on the bottom, or you could suspend it a little off the bottom with some rope and a 2 x 4 laid on the deck and stuck out a little past the edge of the coping.
Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started
OK. Fill will be complete in the next few hours. I estimate I drained and refilled 5k gallons in a ~30k gallon pool. If my CYA was really ~120, this is not going to take it all there way down to 30-40.
Question: do I then need to do another drain and fill before the SLAM? What's the highest CYA where a SLAM is possible? Is it clearly necessary when my water has been clear, but there was some algae on the top step and along the edge?
I still need to figure out the drain speed and the vacuuming issue. And I need to go to work today, which limits my availability to work on this during the week.
OK. Fill will be complete in the next few hours. I estimate I drained and refilled 5k gallons in a ~30k gallon pool. If my CYA was really ~120, this is not going to take it all there way down to 30-40.
Question: do I then need to do another drain and fill before the SLAM? What's the highest CYA where a SLAM is possible? Is it clearly necessary when my water has been clear, but there was some algae on the top step and along the edge?
I still need to figure out the drain speed and the vacuuming issue. And I need to go to work today, which limits my availability to work on this during the week.