New pool in NJ

[shakham]

I'd love to get your thoughts on what we are doing...
Right now we have a blank backyard to start with. The deck is there, but no patios. We are the pool and 2 patios at the same time.

Some specs...
Pool:
24x50 vinyl
diving board
6 1/2' wild ride slide w/ water line
3 steps - 1x24'
depth shallow side: graded 3.5' to 4.5'
deep side: 9'

All Pentair equipment...
1 1/2 HP Superflo pump
SD80CP Sand filter
Intellichlor IC40 Salt water generator
ACT-1250 Aquacomfort heat pump
2 x Intellibrite 5G white LED light (thinking of adding a 3rd)

Kreepy Krauly pool cleaner
Decking will be stamped concrete.

I may be a little shaky on the specs, and how I organized it...lol.
Also we changed the size of the pool from 20x50 to 24x50, so I'm not sure if the equipment is now undersized.

Oh...we were thinking of going concrete, but that's an extra $13K. My wife would rather spend that on a bathroom reno in the future. Are we being stupid?

We're still sorting everything out.

Appreciate your thoughts .

 

[Jimrahbe]

Welcome to TFP.. A great place to be...

The only thing that stands out for me is the Creepy Crawler. I suggest you dump the CC and get a Robot. A robot is like today's cell phone, technology wise, and the Creepy Crawler is like the old black rotary dial phone. Don't tell anyone, but it's 2016, not 1916...

I like the layout and the slide. I also like your steps location and design.

Will your equipment be in the shed at the lower left of your picture?

Just noticed how big this pool will be.. Not sure I'm spot on, but it looks like 45 to 50K gallons. If this is the case an IC40 is waaaay undersized. I suggest you step up to the IC60. Even at that, you'll have to run your pump a ton to adequately chlorinate your pool. It would be worth the investment to get a variable speed pump that you can run at a low RPM for a long time with very little electrical cost.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

Crazy?? Yeah for not having done this before now! LOL

Love the design! Just how big is your property??? That looks huge in the design!

Interesting how your broke up the two areas with the fence.Any reason not to have the outdoor lounge and kitchen area fenced in with the pool?

You list stamped concrete in your specs but say concrete is $15k extra?? What?? LOL

Kim

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kim,

I think he means a "Plaster" pool vs. a "Vinyl" pool is an additional $15K.

Jim R.

 

[shakham]

Welcome to TFP.. A great place to be...

I feel privileged to be here .

The only thing that stands out for me is the Creepy Crawler. I suggest you dump the CC and get a Robot. A robot is like today's cell phone, technology wise, and the Creepy Crawler is like the old black rotary dial phone. Don't tell anyone, but it's 2016, not 1916...

I like the layout and the slide. I also like your steps location and design.

Will your equipment be in the shed at the lower left of your picture?

The PB is including a season of maintenance. Maybe he wants it to be hard for me to clean so I can keep the service . What robot would you recommend?

Actually I plan to keep the shed closer to the diving board, and extend the concrete up to the front of it. The equipment would be besides it, away from the house. Right now I think we'll use the shed to store pool stuff, but maybe we'll convert part of it into a changing room..unsure right now.

Just noticed how big this pool will be.. Not sure I'm spot on, but it looks like 45 to 50K gallons. If this is the case an IC40 is waaaay undersized. I suggest you step up to the IC60. Even at that, you'll have to run your pump a ton to adequately chlorinate your pool. It would be worth the investment to get a variable speed pump that you can run at a low RPM for a long time with very little electrical cost.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I will speak to the PB about this....thanks!

 

[shakham]

Crazy?? Yeah for not having done this before now! LOL

Hi Kim,

To be fair, we have only been in this house 2 years now . My older son is a swim team kid, my middle is still getting better, and my youngest is only 2. We were a little afraid of the commitment....almost feels like marriage ...only more expensive...LOL.

Love the design! Just how big is your property??? That looks huge in the design!

Interesting how your broke up the two areas with the fence.Any reason not to have the outdoor lounge and kitchen area fenced in with the pool?

You list stamped concrete in your specs but say concrete is $15k extra?? What?? LOL

Kim

So yeah...the picture doesn't show the property line. We have about 1.4 acres. The rear of the pool is 15' from the property line where there are a bunch of privacy bushes and trees. We snugged up the pool as close the line as legally possible. On the bottom side (aka where the shed is) we have tons of space. I'll post up some pics of the actual property when I get the chance.

To be honest, we're not going to have a kitchen, that was just the PB designer adding that. The reason we split off the other patio is because if we ever do nighttime events, we want to be able to isolate the pool off if there are little kids.

Yeah...Jim (thank you) is right about the concrete...
I meant PB wants $13K to do gunite.

My wife wants to do stamped for the patios, but we haven't figure out color, patterns, nor anything else.

Our focus is on the pool itself...and not much "extras"...I hope that isn't a mistake. PB was telling us instead of upping the size, we should spend money on fun stuff, like fountain things, and waterfall. Like, we don't even have a hot tub. I remember reading threads here talking about what size pool, and how much decking. The general feel I got was bigger is better for both, so I kind of took that to heart. Also, cost to go bigger is incremental. Like moving from 20x50 to 24x50 was $1700 which comes out to $8.50sq/ft which was a no brainer for me.

I put the slide because the kids wanted it. I read on TFP that kids outgrow it quickly....slide is $2700 and I wouldn't mind axing it. But kids want it....decisions decison.

I don't know....what do you folks think about having more "fun stuff" for the pool (aka waterfall, fountain, hot tub, etc etc)?

 

[bmoreswim]

I like big pools. Ours is 18' x 38', which feels and looks big. Your pool is XXL, top 1% of all residential pools I'm sure. It may not feel that way in NJ, but if you look at the whole US, it is. Reasons to go that big are, diving board and want to have a long deep area, lots of big parties - 15+ swimmers, lap swimming, etc. Just comments. I like it.

Agree that the IC-40 is completely inadequate. You are more in the range of the max producer of chlorine Circupool RJ60 (the only only to produce more than 2-ish lbs of chlorine gas a day, it makes 3.1 lbs). See these two links for more information. Don't rely on your PB to make this crucial choice for you. Would be nice to stay all Pentair though. The IC-60 is borderline, creating long pump run times as mentioned above. The RJ60 is a much better value to boot on a lbs of chlorine gas per day per dollar basis.
http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/118500-SWG-recommendations?p=1048533&viewfull=1#post1048533
http://www.discountsaltpool.com/Salt-System-Comparison.php

I'd definitely add a 3rd light and get the color versions. They are awesome - kind of like shrimp scampi vs. plain elbow macaroni. The effect of the color lights can't be overestimated. They alone turn a great looking pool into an awesome looking one.

I'l politely decline the offer of maintenance for one year. It will be easy peasy and fun too. And you'll know it's always perfectly balanced and safe for your family. Ironically, you'd expect that from the pool service but you never know. They only come once per week usually which introduces compromises to how they must maintain the water. Though those compromises are mostly not that big of a deal for SWG pools, but I'd still want to do it myself.

 

[kimkats]

The "fun" stuff can be added later. The pool cannot be made bigger later so.........

I wondered if the two areas were for kids and/or pets. Good move!

A stand alone hot tub works great and can get more use as it will have a cover to help keep the heat in.

The slide just looks like fun. Have you talked to your insurance company about the diving board and slide?

Kim

 

[Jimrahbe]

In the "old" days, most pool had a deep-end, a diving board, and a shallow-end.

The benefits are that the deep-end allows you to have a diving board that is safe.
The down side, is that no one can stand in that end of the pool.

Today, many pools are made as "Sports or Play" pools. Generally 4 feet deep at each end and 5 or 6 feet in the middle.

The benefits are that you can stand up in almost the whole pool, and this allows you to do things like play volley ball, or similar games.
The disadvantage is that you can't have a diving board. In fact diving at all is a safety concern.
One other benefit of a sports pool is that you have less water to treat and less chlorine to add.

Just something to be thinking about, depending on your life style and how you plan to use the pool in the future.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[shakham]

In the "old" days, most pool had a deep-end, a diving board, and a shallow-end.

The benefits are that the deep-end allows you to have a diving board that is safe.
The down side, is that no one can stand in that end of the pool.

Today, many pools are made as "Sports or Play" pools. Generally 4 feet deep at each end and 5 or 6 feet in the middle.

The benefits are that you can stand up in almost the whole pool, and this allows you to do things like play volley ball, or similar games.
The disadvantage is that you can't have a diving board. In fact diving at all is a safety concern.
One other benefit of a sports pool is that you have less water to treat and less chlorine to add.

Just something to be thinking about, depending on your life style and how you plan to use the pool in the future.


Thanks,

Jim R.

This was the primary reason I wanted to go 50ft. I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds. A 24x25 shallow end (minus the steps), and a 24x25 deep end. PB also suggested considering sport.

This actually makes me think....
What would be the ideal split?

Could/should I shrink the deep end even more? My understanding is the slope needs to be a 3:1 ratio. So going from 4.5' to 9' would require 13.5' feet for the slope. I don't know what minimum I need for the actual deep end to be diving board safe. I mean...if I go 30 shallow, and 20 deep, that pretty much solves the sport pool issue (more or less).

The slide just looks like fun. Have you talked to your insurance company about the diving board and slide?

Kim

I haven't spoken to the insurance company yet. There are lots of people with pools around here, so I'm hoping it won't be a big deal. I will make the call though. I also have a trampoline....I can just see the insurance company freaking out...lol.

I will talk to my wife about the hot tub, but I don't think we are really hot tub people .

Jim:

I like big pools. Ours is 18' x 38', which feels and looks big. Your pool is XXL, top 1% of all residential pools I'm sure. It may not feel that way in NJ, but if you look at the whole US, it is. Reasons to go that big are, diving board and want to have a long deep area, lots of big parties - 15+ swimmers, lap swimming, etc. Just comments. I like it.

Hi Jim, I will ask the PB about the colored lights. He was suggesting it as well, but it might have been me penny pinching...I can't remember. RJ60 sounds good. It's about $300 more than the IC-40...and similar in price to the IC-60.

Believe me, I know the pool is huge...most people I spoke to in NJ have 20x40 or less. PB told me I could do about a 700sq/ft pool in gunite for around the same price as the 1200 sq/ft vinyl pool. I chose size over quality? Maybe?

 

[kimkats]

It really sounds like you have talked and thought these things through. This is what TFP is all about-planning and doing thing how you want them for the long run.

This is going to be a fun build to help on!

Kim

 

[shakham]

So some pics of where things will be happening...

 

[kimkats]

What a pretty house and yard! Love it!

Kim

 

[Captain 776]

Are you SURE you want a pool that BIG. Any pool is a lot of work and then add in all the other aspects of running the pool and cleaning it. Give careful consideration to the size and be sure you want that big.
Looks like you are going to have your hands full keeping that pool clean with all those trees in close proximity like they are, with pollen in spring and leaves in fall. Regardless of the size you settle on, if it is in your budget, a retractable pool cover is going to save you a lot in the long run.
As for cleaning / vacuuming I agree with the comment above, get a robot. There is several manufacturers to choose from. I bought mine 8 months ago, I bought a Dolphin, it was the best 765.00 I ever spent. It does everything, even climbs and scrubs the walls. Another good thing of a robot, it has an onboard filter basket and the fine debris it catches is amazing. Where it is self contained, it isn't running all the debris and fines into your filter like standard vacuuming does and the benefit is you do not need to backwash as often. Every time you backwash and rinse you are dumping water and changing your pool chemistry. The Dolphin does not require a separate pump to run it.....just submerse it in the pool and plug it in. The onboard computer learns the geometry of your pool. When I first had mine, I would make not of where befits and dirt were on the bottom and when the robot finished a cycle, I would go look for spots it missed, I am yet to find one. I swear by mine and highly recommend it. Instead of taking 60-90 minutes of vacuuming, vacuuming takes 10 minutes, 5 minutes to launch the robot and 5 minutes to clean the basket after the 2 hr cycle is completed. Another thing to consider, in New jersey, the pool season is short, if you were installing this in a state where you could use it all year long, that would be a different case. Easy to get excited about your new pool and make mistakes when choosing what to do......you are making a correct step by asking here, this is a great site with many well experienced guys in all aspects of pools from construction to water chemistry and everything in between.......I you have any question about anything I wrote, please ask me.......thanks

 

[Veccster]

Just want to say that you're pool will definitely be big!

Most pools in the NE are vinyl. I would worry about cracking / heaving in the winter freeze/thaw that we experience.

DEFINITELY go with color lights. I can't imagine putting in a regular white light with the technology available today. LED lights are also cheaper to run.

Consider where you are putting the lights. You should have them facing AWAY from sitting spots - or the house. Have the light switch routed to a convenient spot. Most color lights have different 'shows' that can be cycled through with multiple flips of the switch.

Also, I'm a swimmer and I think my kids are becoming swimmers. We considered doing full length steps as well but it prevents flip turns in the shallow end when doing laps. We decided to leave a spot open and moved our steps into the corner with benches that run most of the way across. It leaves about 6' against the shallow wall for flip turns. Otherwise, your swimmer reaches the steps and needs to just turn around and probably push off the steps.

Also, go with the slide. Kids and adults love it.

Lastly, consider a bench or resting spot in the deep end - maybe a corner bench? It can be any height you choose but gives kids a spot a rest and not be holding onto the side.

Good luck with the build!

 

[shakham]

Are you SURE you want a pool that BIG. Any pool is a lot of work and then add in all the other aspects of running the pool and cleaning it. Give careful consideration to the size and be sure you want that big.
Looks like you are going to have your hands full keeping that pool clean with all those trees in close proximity like they are, with pollen in spring and leaves in fall. Regardless of the size you settle on, if it is in your budget, a retractable pool cover is going to save you a lot in the long run.
As for cleaning / vacuuming I agree with the comment above, get a robot. There is several manufacturers to choose from. I bought mine 8 months ago, I bought a Dolphin, it was the best 765.00 I ever spent. It does everything, even climbs and scrubs the walls. Another good thing of a robot, it has an onboard filter basket and the fine debris it catches is amazing. Where it is self contained, it isn't running all the debris and fines into your filter like standard vacuuming does and the benefit is you do not need to backwash as often. Every time you backwash and rinse you are dumping water and changing your pool chemistry. The Dolphin does not require a separate pump to run it.....just submerse it in the pool and plug it in. The onboard computer learns the geometry of your pool. When I first had mine, I would make not of where befits and dirt were on the bottom and when the robot finished a cycle, I would go look for spots it missed, I am yet to find one. I swear by mine and highly recommend it. Instead of taking 60-90 minutes of vacuuming, vacuuming takes 10 minutes, 5 minutes to launch the robot and 5 minutes to clean the basket after the 2 hr cycle is completed. Another thing to consider, in New jersey, the pool season is short, if you were installing this in a state where you could use it all year long, that would be a different case. Easy to get excited about your new pool and make mistakes when choosing what to do......you are making a correct step by asking here, this is a great site with many well experienced guys in all aspects of pools from construction to water chemistry and everything in between.......I you have any question about anything I wrote, please ask me.......thanks

Thanks for your comments...appreciate it . The trees aren't as bad as it looks...most are really far away, and the majority of the closest ones are evergreens.

I love the idea of a retractable pool cover. I saw PB putting one for someone else, and said it was $15K. Does that sound right?

Dolphin....
I see many models. If you don't mind me asking, which one did you buy?

 

[shakham]

Just want to say that you're pool will definitely be big!

Most pools in the NE are vinyl. I would worry about cracking / heaving in the winter freeze/thaw that we experience.

Are you saying that vinyl has issues with cracking/heaving due to winter?

DEFINITELY go with color lights. I can't imagine putting in a regular white light with the technology available today. LED lights are also cheaper to run.

Consider where you are putting the lights. You should have them facing AWAY from sitting spots - or the house. Have the light switch routed to a convenient spot. Most color lights have different 'shows' that can be cycled through with multiple flips of the switch.

This is a good point....
Could I use a WEMO light switch?

This way I could use my phone, or Alexa (Amazon Echo) to cycle the lights.

Also, I'm a swimmer and I think my kids are becoming swimmers. We considered doing full length steps as well but it prevents flip turns in the shallow end when doing laps. We decided to leave a spot open and moved our steps into the corner with benches that run most of the way across. It leaves about 6' against the shallow wall for flip turns. Otherwise, your swimmer reaches the steps and needs to just turn around and probably push off the steps.

Also, go with the slide. Kids and adults love it.

Lastly, consider a bench or resting spot in the deep end - maybe a corner bench? It can be any height you choose but gives kids a spot a rest and not be holding onto the side.

Good luck with the build!

I thought about that step issue too. I'm not sure I understand....do you have a picture of what you did? Is this in Vinyl?

 

[Captain 776]

Hello,
My pool is only 8m x 4m so I bought the S-100. I think it was equivalent to 765.00 USD. It comes with a fine mesh screen but when I bought mine, they had a promotion and gave the Ultra Fine basket for free. If it is not on promotion, the Ultra Fine basket is about 75.00. If you go with your original pool size, you may need a 300 or 400 Model, wherever you buy it can give you more accurate data than I can, but in the 200 and 300 model, I think it comes with 2 baskets, one is the screen and then the Ultra Fine fits inside the screen basket. I highly recommend the Ultra Fine basket and I will tell you why. My pool was already sparklingly clear when my robot got delivered but I wanted to see how it works, so I put it in for a cycle which lasts about 2 hrs. When I took it out to rinse the filter plates, they were black, with all the fine particles it was able to extract even though my water looked like it didn't even need to be vacuumed and like I said above, all this stays in the basket on the robot and never enters your filter, that is a giant plus. No matter what size pool you have, you definitely want a robot. Don't spend extra to be able to control it from your phone, you will never use it. The benefit of a robot, is put it in the pool and go do something else for 2 hrs and then 5 minutes to retrieve it and rinse out the filter baskets. I recommend to store it upside down after cleaning it, so you don't make flat spots on the brushes and squeegee underneath. I would not spend extra for the dolly/cart to move it around, not heavy. Always clean the filter baskets well after each use and I hose off the whole unit so there is no salt build up anywhere. Hope that helps.......any other question, let me know

Captain Bruce

 

[grottoguy]

I suggest you consider the Polaris 280, which you can keep in your pool all the time and dont need to remove after each cleaning. If you search this web site you will see a comparison between the Polaris ( a pressure side cleaner for which you will need a booster pump) and a robot.

I would keep the first 25-30 feet about four feet so you can play volleyball in the pool, but your slide seems to interfere with the end where I think your volleyball boundary would be. You may not be able to move the slide closer to the diving board because it may interfere with it so maybe you would need to make the pool even bigger. It is probably safe to have the slide come into four feet of water ( the slide instructions should tell you that) but I suggest you have it come into five or five and a half (because legs can hit the bottom and some kids will go head first) unless you want the small kids to be able to walk once they come down the slide.

I would add some type of water feature because it is very relaxing.

I wouldn't pay extra for gunite but I would see if you could eliminate the railing walking down the steps ( and maybe you can replace the ladder in the deep end with a shelf). Not sure if that could be done in a vinyl pool.

 

[shakham]

Hope that helps.......any other question, let me know

Captain Bruce

I did some research and apparently there are a ton of models out there. I'll do some research and just pick one. I tend to overthink things sometimes, so I'm going to avoid doing that .

Grottoguy, I will look into the Polaris 280. One thing about the automatic electrical ones is the electric wire. I guess I'm still a bit fearful of mixing electricity and water, but on the flip side I'd prefer not having to manage a hose.

I suggest you consider the Polaris 280, which you can keep in your pool all the time and dont need to remove after each cleaning. If you search this web site you will see a comparison between the Polaris ( a pressure side cleaner for which you will need a booster pump) and a robot.

I would keep the first 25-30 feet about four feet so you can play volleyball in the pool, but your slide seems to interfere with the end where I think your volleyball boundary would be. You may not be able to move the slide closer to the diving board because it may interfere with it so maybe you would need to make the pool even bigger. It is probably safe to have the slide come into four feet of water ( the slide instructions should tell you that) but I suggest you have it come into five or five and a half (because legs can hit the bottom and some kids will go head first) unless you want the small kids to be able to walk once they come down the slide.

Check this pic I found. The have the slide going the opposite as mine. Maybe this is an option....best of both worlds. Only thing is I can't go 4' straight, I have a young child. The plan is to go from 3.5' to 4.5' in the shallow end. I think that should be okay for volleyball, no?

I would add some type of water feature because it is very relaxing.

I wouldn't pay extra for gunite but I would see if you could eliminate the railing walking down the steps ( and maybe you can replace the ladder in the deep end with a shelf). Not sure if that could be done in a vinyl pool.

Eliminating the rail....that may be a good idea. We do have grandparents that come over, I wonder if they will need that. One possibility...can I just move the rail over to the far side of the pool?

PB is coming Monday to finalize most of the changes. He should be able to help with some of these ideas.