New Pool in Broken Arrow OK

Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
117
NE Oklahoma
Why did you replumb the house?
Because I'm a sucker for punishment! :mrgreen:

Long story long... I have 2 HVAC units in my house. One was located in the attic, and the other in an interior closet, along with a tank water heater. The A-coil in the attic unit failed after 15 years, and had to be replaced. The unit was installed in the attic prior to sheetrock, and the builder did not leave an opening large enough to be able to get any part of the unit through. I did not want to cut a hole in my ceiling, and I had always planned on moving the mechanical into a nook in the garage, so I decided that now was the time. I also wanted to upgrade the equipment to more efficient stuff. Moving this stuff to the garage meant I could get all mechanical in a location where I could have easy access. Along with moving those out there, I also wanted to get the water heater out of the interior of the house, and convert to a tankless unit. This turned into one of those "project scope creep" situations where doing one thing led to doing another and another and another. Moving the HVAC to the garage meant reworking the gas lines. Since I was reworking the gas lines for those, I should just go ahead and move the water heater to the garage at the same time, since it doesn't make sense to replumb the the gas twice. I want to eventually do a tankless unit which will require 4 times the amount of gas so I have to consider that. While I'm replumbing the gas, I should just add a manifold and that way I can isolate individual appliances without having to shut off the whole house. Since I'm moving the water heater out next to the HVAC, I am gonna have to rework the water lines to connect back up. It would be really nice to have this manifold so that I could easily isolate things in the future. I know we will be adding more plumbing for a master bath remodel in the next few years, and a wet bar addition, so I can justify the manifold. Since the tankless unit really needs a pre and post filter, I might as well add this whole house filtration/softener system. And I think that was where it stopped. I wound up completely replacing every inch of HVAC ductwork in my house, along with every gas and water line.

Bonus plan was that when it came time to run gas for the pool pad, the plumber had no issues adding to the end of the manifold. And when he saw it, he complimented me on it. Although he tried to sound like he was smarter than me, calling me out that I used a water valve for the main inlet to the gas manifold. It was at that point I lost any respect for him. I spec this stuff for a living. I can assure you that I used a valve that was UL listed for gas service. This was the same plumber that had to come out and rework everything he did, because he wouldn't listen to me when I asked him why he was adding a pressure regulator at the pool heater. He kept telling me we had to reduce the pressure from pounds to ounces (I'm guessing he only read the tag on the meter, and since it said it was good for 5 psi, he assumed that was the pressure. Nevermind the pressure regulator hanging off the side of the meter that says 8-14 inches). And when I told him we only had 9" at the manifold, he didn't care to listen. He kept on like he knew more than me. And it is likely he does, in a lot of areas. But when it comes to the ins and outs of my home, I know everything. Because I have designed the entire system. So since the plumber wouldn't listen to me, I questioned the pool builder on it. Low and behold, the next week that kid was out here redoing everything; larger line feeding the pool pad, no regulator at the heater. Unfortunately I was not able to come home while he was fixing it. I would have been polite, but I would have been asking a lot of questions! :wink:

So, here is the end result of that scope creep on the mechanical work...

Mechanical nook.JPG
Water heater.JPG
Lines.JPG

You can see the water manifold on the right and the gas manifold on the left. I'm never leaving this place. Unless I build, I will never find another house with these features. Nobody wants to spend the money doing it like this. Fortunately I have a good friend who is an HVAC contractor who I was able to let run with this. As you can tell, he is neurotic when it comes to his work. The only person I have ever let work on my house and I know I can leave him to his own devices. He actually thinks about what he is doing, doesn't just try and get it done and get out. When I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, having to temper my expectations, this is what I was talking about. I would say this is how to do it right. Most would say I'm nuts.

--Jeff
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
44,950
Tallahassee, FL
One was located in the attic, and the other in an interior closet, along with a tank water heater.
A water heater INSIDE the house??? WHY??? OH MY that is a flood waiting to happen!!

all mechanical in a location where I could have easy access.
Smart move to the max!!! Access is much needed for these kinds of things!

This turned into one of those "project scope creep" situations where doing one thing led to doing another and another and another.
Yeah and the trips to the store of the one TINY part you HAVE to have to finish :roll:

So since the plumber wouldn't listen to me, I questioned the pool builder on it. Low and behold, the next week that kid was out here redoing everything; larger line feeding the pool pad, no regulator at the heater. Unfortunately I was not able to come home while he was fixing it. I would have been polite, but I would have been asking a lot of questions! :wink:
SIGH.................yeah might want to listen so you don't have to repeat your work!! GURRRRR

Fortunately I have a good friend who is an HVAC contractor who I was able to let run with this. As you can tell, he is neurotic when it comes to his work. The only person I have ever let work on my house and I know I can leave him to his own devices. He actually thinks about what he is doing, doesn't just try and get it done and get out.
LOVE his work!!! That IS how it should be done each and every time!!

When I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, having to temper my expectations, this is what I was talking about. I would say this is how to do it right. Most would say I'm nuts.
And this is the main reason I have my above ground pool.............Someone would be buried under an in ground pool with some of the stuff/jobs I have seen on here :roll:

I LOVE hearing stories like this. This is why I ask............you can learn so much from these kinds of things! Thanks for sharing! :hug:

Kim:kim:
 
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Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
117
NE Oklahoma
I am throwing this in here just to keep it all together. Had some fun playing with my pool today. Today was the day that I reworked the plumbing to make it exactly like I want it. From discussions with my PB, it appeared to me that they were somewhat limited on their knowledge around the full functionality of the Intellicenter. Early on, I initially asked about being able to control each water feature independently, and was told that the system was limited on the number of actuators that could be installed. So it was either that or they just didn't want to mess with it. I knew after reading through MyAZPool's Intellicenter thread, that this was just not the case. It was at that point that I knew I would be reworking some of the plumbing to make it more to my liking. I probably could have pushed my PB to make these changes, but just did not see that it was worth it, since I am extremely particular about how I want things done.

The original plumbing set up had my scuppers, or wall waterfalls, on the filter pump. It was configured so that I could run the infloor, and add the waterfalls, or I could run the spa. This was accomplished via the two, 3-way valves in front of the heaters. The right 3-way valve was the one that controlled the infloor/wall waterfalls. The left is the spa return valve. On the features pump, were the deck jets and bubblers. I could run bubblers only, or bubblers and deck jets, but not deck jets only. That is the 3-way valve on the far right of the equipment pad. Apparently I never got a full picture of the equipment pad after the panel and actuators were installed.

The biggest issue I had with the way they did it was I didn't like not being able to run the wall waterfalls with the spa, because I wanted to be able to listen to the waterfalls while I relax in the spa (I don't generally use the air blower when I'm in the spa. Or when I am out sitting by the fire pit and the kids are in the spa, I want to hear the waterfalls! Yes I realize it raises my PH but I am willing to deal with that. LOL! And I really wanted to be able to turn on the bubblers and the deck jets independently of each other.

So I removed the 3 way valve that was controlling the infloor/wall waterfalls, so that now there is only one 3-way valve controlling either spa, or infloor running. And I plumbed in 3 new valves to independently control each of the water features. Now I have it all done to my liking. And only took me and a buddy a few hours and a handful of beers. Now I just have to get the system balanced to my liking so that as I turn each feature on and off, the flows remain close to the same.

Next project is to add the IntelliPH! I ordered that just the other day. I will be removing the UV canister and utilizing that space for the acid canister. I have read up on Dirk's install thread on the IntelliPH which is what finally convinced me to add it.

Now that I know what happens when you build a pool, if I ever do another one, I will require a full set of approval prints for the piping plan and equipment pad, prior to plumbing beginning. I will say, if my PB had that capacity, they would easily be one of the best in my area. I already think they are one of the best, but that would push them over the top.

--Jeff
 

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kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
44,950
Tallahassee, FL
The biggest issue I had with the way they did it was I didn't like not being able to run the wall waterfalls with the spa, because I wanted to be able to listen to the waterfalls while I relax in the spa (I don't generally use the air blower when I'm in the spa. Or when I am out sitting by the fire pit and the kids are in the spa, I want to hear the waterfalls! Yes I realize it raises my PH but I am willing to deal with that. LOL! And I really wanted to be able to turn on the bubblers and the deck jets independently of each other.
YES!! This is how is SHOULD be!! Turn on or off each item as wanted!! Boooooo on the PB going that extra step.

LOL on knowing about the pH push but that is what TFP is about! Knowing what does what!! Good job!!! It will be so worth it!!!

Kim:kim:
 

Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
117
NE Oklahoma
Ok - I'm getting ready to plumb in my IntellipH (likely next weekend. This weekend has some indoor projects that have been put off waaaaaaay too long) and I was reading through the IC40 manual, and it states that the cell works best in the vertical position. So I wanted to throw this out there and check... Is there any benefit of me changing the plumbing to allow for that? Since I have to redo stuff anyway, to get the ipH in there, I figured now is the time to do it, if it actually does provide a benefit. Otherwise, the clean look of the horizontal install wins.

Thanks

--Jeff
 

FlapjackMcCoy

Bronze Supporter
Aug 13, 2019
66
North Carolina
I'm in a similar situation as you, just trying to get things how I like them. When in spa mode the PB set up the actuators so that the spa is completely isolated. We found that over time with everyone getting in and out of the spa the water level would be low so I cheated the suction side actuator to take a little bit of water from the pool when in spa mode. How is yours set up?
 
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Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
117
NE Oklahoma
@FlapjackMcCoy - Mine is set up the same as yours. Completely isolates the pool/spa when running spa mode. Funny thing is I have watched that happen when everyone gets in and the water level drops after we all get out, I just hadn't concerned myself with it. I think I shall look at re-setting the limits on the actuators, as you have done, to pull just a little from the pool return when in spa mode. Thanks!
 
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FlapjackMcCoy

Bronze Supporter
Aug 13, 2019
66
North Carolina
@FlapjackMcCoy - Mine is set up the same as yours. Completely isolates the pool/spa when running spa mode. Funny thing is I have watched that happen when everyone gets in and the water level drops after we all get out, I just hadn't concerned myself with it. I think I shall look at re-setting the limits on the actuators, as you have done, to pull just a little from the pool return when in spa mode. Thanks!
Haha awesome thanks for the validation. I tend to overthink things.