New Pool Build Los Angeles

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Tony411LA said:
LDVPool, You are right, the vertical expansion joints every 8 inches would not be esthetically pleasing, and I have actually never seen it done. And I don't plan on doing it. But I will definitely use the recommended waterproofing membrane, thinset and grout. I also read they require that the glass tile not be immersed for 28 days after being grouted to ensure the thinset and grout have cured properly. That requirement is probably not followed either.

I did change my spa so that is has two vanishing edges that will stay immersed, which as you said, should reduce the chance of thermal shock. Now to find a good quality glass "pool" tile that doesn't cost a fortune.
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Tony - it's advised to have an expansion joint every eight feet - not inches. If done correctly, I'm told it should not be obvious. I spoke to one of the guys today who actually wrote the glass tile standards manual and he said that it was important to think of these things to ensure you didn't have problems with expansion and contraction. I honestly have no idea how far away Carlsbad is from where you live, but it would definitely be worth a trip to visit the Oceanside Glasstile studio with all their overstock samples. They have stock in many designs/colors - so there's no waiting to get it from overseas. Everything is made in Carlsbad and is handmade/cut/assembled, etc at their factory. They are only one of two tile companies who manufacture in the US and "anneal" their glass properly. Lightstreams is the other company.
 
AmyJo said:
Tony - it's advised to have an expansion joint every eight feet - not inches. If done correctly, I'm told it should not be obvious. I spoke to one of the guys today who actually wrote the glass tile standards manual and he said that it was important to think of these things to ensure you didn't have problems with expansion and contraction. I honestly have no idea how far away Carlsbad is from where you live, but it would definitely be worth a trip to visit the Oceanside Glasstile studio with all their overstock samples. They have stock in many designs/colors - so there's no waiting to get it from overseas. Everything is made in Carlsbad and is handmade/cut/assembled, etc at their factory. They are only one of two tile companies who manufacture in the US and "anneal" their glass properly. Lightstreams is the other company.
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Hi AmyJo,

I was not aware, it was 8 feet instead of 8 inches. Depending on the geometry of your pool, that may not be too noticeable. Carlsbad is only about 2 hours away from LA, so that could make for a fun road trip. Again, my concern is them having only paper/plastic-facing tile, which my PB wants to charge a fortune to install. I already know my favorite Oceanside tile is their Aqua iridescent. If I can get my PB to come down on the price of the install, I would grab that tile in a heartbeat. If they're open on weekends, I may consider a trip next weekend. By then I will hopefully have gunite. Are you going directly through Oceanside or one of their resellers?
 
Tony411LA said:
I understand that paper-faced will allow more surface of the tile to contact the thinnest versus mesh-backed tile. But what I don't understand is why it is that much more complicated to install. I would be willing to pay a few more dollars per square foot for the installation, but not more than twice as much. That is ridiculous. I'm going to have to revisit this with my PB before I make my final decision.
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It's not hard to install. Unfortunately I've learned that many contractors are against glass tile because they do not understand it. I've been told such crazy things. Care just needs to be taken and instructions should be read and heeded. Paper fronted tile shouldn't be harder at all. Lining up six inches of tile from sheet to sheet is just not that hard! Maybe you can sub the tile part out yourself??
 
AmyJo said:
Hi - my apologies. I stand corrected - an expansion joint every 8 feet IS advised for glass tile on a pool. However, Oceanside says it shouldn't be obvious when using a colored grout to match.
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No need to apologize.

It is an instruction that no one seems to follow. I think it exists just to invalidate the warranty on the tile.

Our PB will not warranty the glass tile beyond 3 months of installation and the company is one of So Cal's premium pool builders.

It's not difficult to understand why. With such impractical standards and the price for most of their glass installations in the five figures, there is a lot at stake.
 
LDVPool said:
No need to apologize.

It is an instruction that no one seems to follow. I think it exists just to invalidate the warranty on the tile.

Our PB will not warranty the glass tile beyond 3 months of installation and the company is one of So Cal's premium pool builders.

It's not difficult to understand why. With such impractical standards and the price for most of their glass installations in the five figures, there is a lot at stake.
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I believe it has to do with companies wanting the best possible performance of the tile. Glass tile was even used in Roman times - it's a very durable material when it's made, cooled and installed correctly. It seems the problems come about when people buy substandard materials and most especially do not follow industry guidelines. It cannot be installed the same as ceramic tile and I personally feel that installers take advantage of it being a bit different and charge more and claim it's "so much more difficult," and yes, to also discourage its use.
 
AmyJo said:
I believe it has to do with companies wanting the best possible performance of the tile. Glass tile was even used in Roman times - it's a very durable material when it's made, cooled and installed correctly. It seems the problems come about when people buy substandard materials and most especially do not follow industry guidelines. It cannot be installed the same as ceramic tile and I personally feel that installers take advantage of it being a bit different and charge more and claim it's "so much more difficult," and yes, to also discourage its use.
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I agree, if you follow their instructions to the letter, which only a small percentage do, if there is an issue, then it is on the tile manufacturer. Otherwise, you're SOL.

I think tilers think of glass tile as a premium product, so they use that opportunity to charge a premium for it's installation. I've installed porcelain, ceramic and glass tiles, and the only difference is the preparation and the installation materials used. Obviously you need to be more careful with glass with respect to cutting it and not scratching it during the installation, but if you are a competent installer, you handle all of your installations with care.
 
Excavation Day 2 - this is as far as they got. Of course they only worked from 10:45 to 2:15. :mad:

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The PM was not on-site today, so I'm sure that is why they decided to cut out early for Friday Happy Hour.

Aside from the short day, I did notice that their layout of the pool lines is not square to the house. They took their measurements of the rear wall, but my house does not sit on my lot square, so they are off about 6.5 inches on one side. If it was a free-form pool, it wouldn't be a big deal, but everything is very linear. I noticed it immediately when I looked at the pool line perpendicular to the house, so they will need to fix it.

But I am super-psyched that the lanai and French doors are now level with the yard.:cool:
 
GUrrrrrrrrrr on the short day :(

Okay now look at the pool from inside the house. Does it look square to the wall? I wonder which would look better from inside the house? I am not sure which way would look best. Are you any good at drawing? I am not so no help from me......draw out the house and the wall trying to keep the correct angles. Then make a "pool" so you can move it and see if we can see which way looks best.

Kim:kim:
 
kimkats said:
GUrrrrrrrrrr on the short day :(

Okay now look at the pool from inside the house. Does it look square to the wall? I wonder which would look better from inside the house? I am not sure which way would look best. Are you any good at drawing? I am not so no help from me......draw out the house and the wall trying to keep the correct angles. Then make a "pool" so you can move it and see if we can see which way looks best.

Kim:kim:
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Kim, When I look (from inside the house) at the string-line depicting the sides of the pool that are perpendicular to the house (on both ends of the pool), I can tell they're not at a 90 degree angle. I would rather have it be square to the house, since the rear wall will have plantings in front of it and be less noticable. I'm probably making more of a deal about this, since I will make sure they do it correctly. It's just frustrating that I have to play GC to the subs. If that's the way it's going to be during this entire process, I should have just done an owner/build.
 

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That is the bad part of a build with a PB........it will fall to you to make sure it is how you want it. Your PB will drop in and out all of the builds the company has going on. Stay on top of it and it will get "fixed".

I like what you are saying about the having with the house. Good thinking about the plants really taking the wall out as a problem.

Your next "have to be there day" will be when they do the the rebar. Don't be shy. Let them know you are there and taking notes of what they are doing and not doing.

Kim:kim:
 
Tony411LA said:
Kim, When I look (from inside the house) at the string-line depicting the sides of the pool that are perpendicular to the house (on both ends of the pool), I can tell they're not at a 90 degree angle. I would rather have it be square to the house, since the rear wall will have plantings in front of it and be less noticable. I'm probably making more of a deal about this, since I will make sure they do it correctly. It's just frustrating that I have to play GC to the subs. If that's the way it's going to be during this entire process, I should have just done an owner/build.
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Prior to excavation, when the lines were drawn for your pool, your GC should have established finish grade, level, and the pool orientation. In fact, somewhere on the site, there should be a stick in the ground (close to your house) with some measurements and marks which will serve as a guide to the shotcrete contractor, the coping installer, and the deck installer, etc.

Following excavation, my GC has checked grade, level, and the pool orientation two other times, prior to shotcrete and prior to coping. He used a special laser level to do that. (He sets up this device on a tripod and walks around the site with a rod which is in communication with the device.) Each time he referenced the marks on the aforementioned stick to see if everything was ok.
 
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement.:lovetfp:

Day 3 - And the excavation is still not complete. :( But at least the pool has been laid out correctly and is now square to the house. The difference from the rear property wall is 4 feet to the edge of the pool on one end and 4.5 feet on the other end. The end that is 4.5 feet is on the side where my raised spa will be, so it won't be noticeable. It all worked out in the end, but still very frustrating. They will come back to complete the dig on Monday. And to prove that something did happen today, here are some pictures... Enjoy!

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When I spoke to the owners son today (my salesperson), he said they have about 150 builds going on right now. I find that hard to believe, because they aren't a huge company, but maybe it's true. Because when speaking with the site manager today by phone, he didn't immediately remember my build and he was just at my house on Thursday.
 
150 :shock: UNREAL and you HAVE to be there for everything! They will get stuff mixed up from pool to pool. After a while they will just do it like this or that because that is how they do them all.

I think you have found the "problem"............too many builds going on at one time!

Kim (NO cheering on this one!)
 

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