New owner, salt. Water is crystal clear! But K-2006-SALT kit indicates ZERO CYA

[truckprank]

Man, this new pool is beautiful with crystal clear water! Installed early February, pool company cleaned it all out after concrete deck poured, etc. They had 3 chlorine tabs in a bobber which is long gone, put the proper amount of salt in about a month ago and fired up the SWG. All looks great! I've been vacuuming and skimming as needed. Seriously, this pool looks amazing and crystal clear right now.

I got the Taylor K-2006-SALT kit and ran my first tests about a week ago. All looks OK except pH and FC looks high and the CYA test never got cloudy meaning I think there's ZERO cyanuric acid present. This all makes sense other than those three tablets should have provided some, no?

I guess I'm not too worried but I really want to understand.

Here are my levels from last week and I plan to test again this weekend:

FC: 5.6
pH: 7.9 (hard to tell it may have been higher)
TA: 110
CH: 70
CYA: 0 (!!!)
SALT: 3400
TEMP: Sample temperature was 68 when I took it although probably raised throughout my testing.

Thanks y'all!

 

[PoolStored]

This all makes sense other than those three tablets should have provided some, no?

Not much, every 1ppm of FC added by a puck, .6 of CYA will be added.

I guess I'm not too worried but I really want to understand.

Here are my levels from last week and I plan to test again this weekend:

FC: 5.6

You should always use this chart to maintain your FC. Link-->FC/CYA Levels

pH: 7.9 (hard to tell it may have been higher)

7.9 is fine. When it hits 8, lower it to 7.6 with Muriatic Acid. Do you have pool math? Link-->PoolMath

TA: 110

Fine. Will come down over time as you manage pH.

CH: 70

Fine, you don't need CH in a fiberglass pool.

CYA: 0 (!!!)

I'd get at least 30ppm of cya in the pool post haste. Use pool math to figure out how much dry stabilizer to add to get 30ppm. Use the sock method. Then I would add in 10ppm increments, retest 48 hours after it dissolves. 60-80 is great with SWCG.

See this:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

and

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

SALT: 3400
TEMP: Sample temperature was 68 when I took it although probably raised throughout my testing.

Nice!

Welcome to TFP!!!

Check this out too...Link-->Pool Care Basics

 

[woodyp]

3 tabs is almost nothing and would be almost impossible to register on a test. Not to mention water loss by back washing, rain and emptying to waste.

 

[truckprank]

Thank you, both PoolStored and woodyp for replying! Much appreciated. I tested again 8 days later, and all was very close to my original readings. Free Cl was lower at around 3.0 and I think because I took that sample late afternoon on a very sunny day so that makes sense.

pH I think may have originally been higher than 7.9 but maybe not. I have a lot of trouble differentiating between the Taylor kit's 7.8, 8.0, and/or higher off the scale pink colors. It took two drops of Acid Demand to bring down to 7.6, then I did it again today and it took one drop to bring down to 7.6 and the 2d drop definitely was like 7.2 so I think my eyes don't see the higher pink colors as well as I'd like.

Regardless - I added about 3lb of Clorox Stabilizer (99% cyanuric acid) today via sock method and will test again tomorrow or so. I'll likely need more but it's a start.

I also bought Clorox pH down which I believe is dry acid but am going to go slow and test before adding any of that. If it turns out I do need to lower pH - should I use the sock method for those granules as well or can I just mix dry acid in pool water, or in a bucket? The sock method was a bit of a pain in the Rear, lol and was hoping to limit that method only to CYA delivery which should not be frequently needed if I'm beginning to understand correctly. (?)

I do have Pool Math (and bought the subscription) so am looking forward to tracking levels with it.

I'm pretty patient so not too worried about any of this AND the water is still super crystal clear, even after about 2" of rain over the past two days!

Thank you again for your replies and advice!!

Dave

 

[HermanTX]

I also bought Clorox pH down which I believe is dry acid but am going to go slow and test before adding any of that. If it turns out I do need to lower pH - should I use the sock method for those granules as well or can I just mix dry acid in pool water, or in a bucket?

Read your instructions for your SWCG. It is not good to use Dry Acid with a SWCG. Go purchase liquid Muractic acid to lower pH.

 

[truckprank]

Read your instructions for your SWCG. It is not good to use Dry Acid with a SWCG. Go purchase liquid Muractic acid to lower pH.

Thank you! Absolutely correct. I just read my manual and it advises against. If I had only done that in the first place, I wouldn't have had to bother you. Thanks for looking out!

 

[duraleigh]

Welcome to the forum .

With warmer temps quickly on the way, you should be testing more frequently........about every three days. Your pool water is quite forgiving this time of year but will need more attention as we head into Summer.

Make sure your CYA gets to 30 ppm and 60 would be better as the water warms.

As noted, muriatic is better than dry acid

 

[truckprank]

After adding the CYA granules yesterday, I’ve finally gotten a CYA reading of 40 woohoo!! My iChlor 15 manual says to keep between 30 and 50 so I’m happy. I will test again in a couple weeks or so and add more if needed.

 

[duraleigh]

Living at Lake Wylie and warm temps on the way, I would dose CYA to 60 ppm now and then monitor for the summer.

 

[truckprank]

Living at Lake Wylie and warm temps on the way, I would dose CYA to 60 ppm now and then monitor for the summer.

Ok you’ve convinced me! Sock is back in the pool. Thanks!

 

[duraleigh]

You will not regret that.......promise!

 

[Newdude]

+1. I'll be running a 70 for SWG soon in NY. I already bumped it to 50 but I'm in no rush with the highs barely breaking into the 60s and only on some days.

Remember that higher CYA levels have higher FC targets, including SLAM. Always stay in or above target range and a high FC SLAM will never matter. (28FC for 70CYA)

 

[truckprank]

Hey everyone, checking back in again here. So I have a theory here on my pool company's initial instructions. Which were to leave my Salt Cell at 100% for three months, then turn down to 60% and leave it. The more I read about that after the fact, the more I started to think that might not be right. . . I think the dude may have just been relying on producing FC abundantly without conditioning. That can't be good for the salt cell long term, can it?

After adding the CYA about 10 days ago, I was only now just able to test for FC and pH. Super sunny day here today. My FC is testing at 24 !!!!! that's right - it took 48 drops of R-0871 in 10ml of pool water to become clear. I did it twice. I am NOT currently doing SLAM and have NOT added any add'l chlorine in any way. That is all coming from the salt generator.

I suspect my pool company never intended to factor CYA in the first place and just have the SWG run at 100% to pump out FC and have it get eaten by the sun all along? I'm not sure but I think the numbers make sense for that theory, given that the CYA helps by a factor of what, 4 - 6 or so depending on sunlight?

Anyway, I turned my SWG down from 100% to 25% (24 FC level @ 100% would be 6 at 25% which is about right I think). And I will test more frequently for sure.

Does my theory pan out?

pH is still high, probably at least 8.0 and took 3 drops of acid demand to bring down to 7.4 so liquid muriatic acid seems to be in my future. I wanted to see how the CYA affected pH before taking that next step.

Edit: I wanted to hop in, as the water temp got to 77 today and ambient was up there too! But decided against after seeing that Free CL level. Was that the right choice or would I have been OK?

 

[jamesey]

Your pool company wasn't expecting you to be on TFP. That's for sure

Your SWG is rated for 15,000 gallons and you left it on 100% for a 7,000 gallon pool. Your FC will most certainly be high. Your theory pans out.

Here's what I'd do:

1. Set your output to 0% until your FC reaches your high end of the ideal range
2. Use the calculator below to find your desired output % and set it
3. Wait 24 hours
4. Test again

If your FC stays consistent, then fantastic. If not, adjust the output % and rinse and repeat.

SWG Run Time Calculator

What is the SWG Run Time Calculator? A tool that is designed to answer the common question of "how long should I run my pump/SWG". It calculates the run time of your SWG and Pump based on your pool size, the output of your SWG and your daily FC PPM loss. It is designed as a starting point...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[HermanTX]

Edit: I wanted to hop in, as the water temp got to 77 today and ambient was up there too! But decided against after seeing that Free CL level. Was that the right choice or would I have been OK?

Follow the FC/CYA Levels. If the FC is above the SLAM level value for a given CYA, then I would avoid swimming.
Set your SWCG to 0% so it effectively turns off. Then add CYA, test after a day and verify what your current CYA and FC are, then compare to the chart.

See this chart that shows the SLAM FC level for a given CYA level. You can safely swim if the FC is no higher than the SLAM level, based on your current CYA level.

 

[MITBeta]

pH is still high

pH will read artificially high any time FC is over 10. Don't go crazy correcting until chlorine levels are lower.

 

[truckprank]

It's been 7 days since the FC reading of 24 from the SWG running at 100%. I turned the SWG to 0% as recommended that same evening and have tested several times since. Today I am reading at 5.0, so I figured my average demand for FC in a 24 hr period is 2.71. I used the SWG spreadsheet to calculate that I should set my generator to 43%. I set it to 40% just now and will continue testing! I think I want to shoot for ongoing 5.0, maybe 6.0 given my current CYA level.

Side note, I took a sample to a local pool store to try and verify or at least validate my results (NOT Leslie's - it's a small independent place and they've been amazing with advice so far even though I haven't spent any money yet with them). Their readings are fairly consistent with mine - FC 4.1, CYA 83 (I got 70 the other day), pH 8.1 (I knew I was above 8.0 but wasn't sure how far above), SALT 3400 (right on w/ my reading), CH 61 (I got 70 the other day).

Also got a Dolphin Quantum robot and so far so good with that.

Next steps, after I'm happy w/ testing FC for a while w/ the new SWG percentage output setting, will be remediate pH with liquid muriatic acid; possibly remediate calcium hardness (even though probably doesn't matter too much w/ fiberglass); and I think that might be it for a while?

As always, open to your thoughts and very appreciative of everyone's advice so far! Everyone has been so super helpful.

 

[drsipe]

Not much, every 1ppm of FC added by a puck, .6 of CYA will be added.

You should always use this chart to maintain your FC. Link-->FC/CYA Levels

7.9 is fine. When it hits 8, lower it to 7.6 with Muriatic Acid. Do you have pool math? Link-->PoolMath

Fine. Will come down over time as you manage pH.

Fine, you don't need CH in a fiberglass pool.

I'd get at least 30ppm of cya in the pool post haste. Use pool math to figure out how much dry stabilizer to add to get 30ppm. Use the sock method. Then I would add in 10ppm increments, retest 48 hours after it dissolves. 60-80 is great with SWCG.

See this:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

and

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

Nice!

Welcome to TFP!!!

Check this out too...Link-->Pool Care Basics

Not that I want to dispute the experts but for CH, you stated that a fiberglass pools do not need CH. I know vinyl pool's (without a heater) does not need CH.

According to pool math vinyl pool's CH range is 0 - 650, but fiberglass pool's CH range is 250 - 650 with an ideal range of 350 - 550.

 

[PoolStored]

Not that I want to dispute the experts but for CH, you stated that a fiberglass pools do not need CH. I know vinyl pool's (without a heater) does not need CH.

According to pool math vinyl pool's CH range is 0 - 650, but fiberglass pool's CH range is 250 - 650 with an ideal range of 350 - 550.

In the past, the gel coat used in fiberglass pools had calcium in it. To my knowledge, the modern gel coats do not.

Our recommended level is 250-350 ppm CH. My understanding is the claim that "it protects the gelcoat" on gelcoats with calcium carbonate filler. If you know your gel coat does not have that filler, then you should be able to ignore low CH.

If you have a tile line in your FG pool, or heater you should follow the recommended CH levels.

Calcium Hardness - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Maybe my statement was out of line and should be corrected... @mknauss @ajw22 @Texas Splash ?

 

[ajw22]

Fine, you don't need CH in a fiberglass pool.

Better wording would have been “The fiberglass pool shell does not need CH unless the manufacturer gives a specific recomendation”.

As you noted the grout in waterline tile or other pool equipment may require CH.

I love when TFP recommendation inconsistencies come back to bite. Folks seem to think this is a tightly edited place when it is run by volunteers and has lots of legacy text.

The Pool Math verbiage on fiberglass pool CH is a more conservative recommendation since the app can’t question if you have waterline tile or a gas heater. Since too little CH can cause problems and adding some does not hurt that is what the app says.

Here we can give a more nuanced answer once we understand the specific situation.