New Member and New Pool Ideas

[Kellyp]

My builder gave us a pentair racer pressure side vac with booster pump. I wish I'd researched that like I did a lot of other things.Next best thing to useless. Highly recommend you get a robot!!

I only run the robot 2 times a week and it's way cleaner than running the pressure side cleaner everyday. I just use it when no one is swimming anyway. Shuts itself off after 2 hours.

I am in Acworth, about 25 mins north of ATL, I use my heater a lot in the early and late seasons cause we like warm water, however, running it in April and Oct, gas Bill's were 700.00 and 560.00 repectively from a norm of 80.00. Um, yikes! Not quite worth it.

I should also say, it's a gas heater and my mistake was setting and forgetting, if I'd only turned it up the day before I wanted to use it, I'm sure it would have been reasonable since we didnt swim everyday by far.

I also leave my pool open all winter. It was fabulous. Yes, you'll have some work during leaf drop time. We have a pro leaf blower and made good use of it, but still had to spend about 30mins a day to get leaves out.

The scary part is spring, when the green fog descends on ga. After that we got some kind of hideous black pollen lining the skimmer socks, then a brown. I knew ga was the worst for pollen, but didnt realize how bad till I had to skim Itvoff the top of the pool. Despite all that, leaving it open this year. I'm one of the oddballs who finds cleaning the pool zen. I work at home so any excuse to leave my desk and enjoy the outdoors!

Oh, the lights, love the colored led, but left them off a lot. They attract bugs almost as bad a ga pollen!
Love my stone coping and colored textured concrete

 

[mayberry32]

I am in Acworth, about 25 mins north of ATL, I use my heater a lot in the early and late seasons cause we like warm water, however, running it in April and Oct, gas Bill's were 700.00 and 560.00 repectively from a norm of 80.00. Um, yikes! Not quite worth it.

We are in Oconee County, just outside Athens. So, we are in identical climate zones. Do you have natural gas or propane? Do you think an electric 140k btu pump would work for maintaining temps with your usage, even if it took longer to get up to temp?

 

[Kellyp]

We have a gas heater, I'm afraid I dont know anything about the electric. I also have 20 x 40, but only a 6.5 foot deep end. Again, I think my mistake was setting it to 90 and not adjusting. It takes about a day to come up to temperature.

Though I dont have info on electric, I would def get a heater, period, unless you greatly prefer cold water, it takes quite a bit for a big pool to get warm. Without it, I dont think we'd have swum much in may this year

And dont downsize that pool, most days I wishv Id gone bigger, and there are at most 5 of us in at any one time.

 

[Kellyp]

Just went and looked, pentair mastertemp 400, natural gas, looks like 400,000 btus. Dont know how that compares to the electric that you're looking at.

 

[mayberry32]

Just went and looked, pentair mastertemp 400, natural gas, looks like 400,000 btus. Dont know how that compares to the electric that you're looking at.

The electrics top out at 140k BTU's. So, they are definitely going to take longer to heat. Probably 2-2.5 days, from what I'm reading. And as long as the outside temp stays at 50 or above, they supposedly can keep the water warm once it reaches temp. That's all from limited reading online, though. Just don't want to make a costly mistake. That's why I'm posting here....to get info from people who have actually used them. Your replies have been VERY helpful, so thank you. I know a gas heater will do the job. Just wish I could avoid having gas lines trenched in and risking very high natural gas rates and exhorbitant bills, if possible.

 

[mguzzy]

Just found your thread.. So cool to be able to tap into the collective experience here to help with your decisions.
It sounds like one of the things you have to nail down is how much swimming you want to do in the off season? And how much you want to extend the season. We have natural gas and its fun heat that puppy up for a pool party in the middle of winter. (one of my kids was born in March) Turns out it was cheaper than going to one of these party places and paying whatever they wanted. But we have a built in spa so the heater is used for that as well. But if you are looking at extending the swimming season, my parents put in solar and combined with a solar cover get about 2-3 weeks added on either end.. that's an extra month and a half. .. the rest of the time they hang out in the neighbors spa. For us in our area NG rates are a lot cheaper than electicity so we get a better bang for our buck with a gas heater compared to a heat pump (if we had one).

 

[mayberry32]

Just found your thread.. So cool to be able to tap into the collective experience here to help with your decisions.
It sounds like one of the things you have to nail down is how much swimming you want to do in the off season? And how much you want to extend the season. We have natural gas and its fun heat that puppy up for a pool party in the middle of winter. (one of my kids was born in March) Turns out it was cheaper than going to one of these party places and paying whatever they wanted. But we have a built in spa so the heater is used for that as well. But if you are looking at extending the swimming season, my parents put in solar and combined with a solar cover get about 2-3 weeks added on either end.. that's an extra month and a half. .. the rest of the time they hang out in the neighbors spa. For us in our area NG rates are a lot cheaper than electicity so we get a better bang for our buck with a gas heater compared to a heat pump (if we had one).

I simply want to be able to extend the season. I'd like to swim from spring break in April through near the end of October. If we decide to go crazy and heat the pool in February during a warm streak, so be it. But, that's not my goal. I just want to extend the season where we have a 6 month swimming season here.

 

[mayberry32]

Meeting PB and going under contract in the morning. My only remaining unanswered question is still the heater, and electric heat pump vs natural gas heater. If the electric 140k BTU will handle a 33,000 gallon 20x40 pool, I’m all in. Just can’t seem to get a definitive answer on whether it can or not.

 

[mguzzy]

I don't think there is a definitive answer. It really lies in what your expectations are. Will it heat the pool? yes. Will it heat the pool fast? define how fast you want to heat your pool. My pool is just over 20K gallon and I have a 300K BTU NG heater (StaRrite SR333NA). We had a pool party this weekend and I added about 10 degrees to the temp over the course of about 8 hours with the solar cover on. I'm guessing your pool would take more than twice as long in the same conditions with a heater that puts out half the capacity.. But you are looking at just extending your season a bit.. so it may be sufficient.

Oh and why pray-tell am I adding 10 degrees to the temp of my pool on 4th of July weekend you may be thinking... My pool is surrounded by big trees and it only gets an hour or two of direct sun a day. Most summers my pool is between 70 and 75, while my neighbor's pools that get all day sun are hitting 90. So I just wanted to get it into the 80's.

 

[mayberry32]

I don't think there is a definitive answer. It really lies in what your expectations are. Will it heat the pool? yes. Will it heat the pool fast? define how fast you want to heat your pool. My pool is just over 20K gallon and I have a 300K BTU NG heater (StaRrite SR333NA). We had a pool party this weekend and I added about 10 degrees to the temp over the course of about 8 hours with the solar cover on. I'm guessing your pool would take more than twice as long in the same conditions with a heater that puts out half the capacity.. But you are looking at just extending your season a bit.. so it may be sufficient.

Oh and why pray-tell am I adding 10 degrees to the temp of my pool on 4th of July weekend you may be thinking... My pool is surrounded by big trees and it only gets an hour or two of direct sun a day. Most summers my pool is between 70 and 75, while my neighbor's pools that get all day sun are hitting 90. So I just wanted to get it into the 80's.

Thanks. This is the most direct answer I’ve gotten. I want the electric heat pump... for running cost, for longevity, and for ease of installation, without the need for a gas line run to the back yard. But, I think the natural gas may be the safest way to go.

One question for you: How much does it cost you, per month, to keep your pool heated to the temp you desire, as it seems your summer temps are about what my spring and fall temps would be. My natural water temperature in April and October will be around 73 or 74°. I’d like to heat it about 10° to have comfortable swimming water.

 

[mguzzy]

That's my favorite answer and it drives my clients crazy.. they ask a direct question and I say ...."It depends" then I go on for a half an hour about what it depends on and they go "Oh"...

We use the heater to heat the spa primarily and the pool occasionally for special events. So I can't give you anything that will show any kind of regular usage since it is just on a as needed basis. We can go a whole month without ever turning on the heater, and then the kids will have friends over and want to fire up the spa three days straight. I do know in my area NG costs are cheaper than electric. This is non pool related, but when our subdivision was built all the houses had HVAC heat pumps. Through the years some of my neighbors switched to gas heaters and found considerable costs savings over the electric heat pump heaters for their kind of usage. So as far as a cost analysis I don't know what the energy rates are in your area. I would talk to other people in your area whit similar equipment for a more accurate comparison.

So to answer your question for me in my area , with the equipment we use, in the way we use it my monthly Gas bill goes up roughly $35bux when we are using the spa a lot (please done ask me to define a lot ;-)). At one point we heated our pool in the dead of winter, (for a birthday party that falls in March). We raised the temperature from the mid 50's to the mid 80's and I was surprised my gas bill only went up $60-70 bux for that month. At that point winter pool parties became more standard fair since it was cheaper than renting party rooms at other venues (pizza, bounce places, etc)

So I don't know how to compare that to your usage.. It sounds like you will be running yours a little everyday to maintain a temperature. Sometimes to chill sometimes to heat. That is quite a bit different than our usage. But my gut tells me for that kind of usage you don't need a high BTU device. You would just run for a longer amount of time. And at some point in the season it won't be cost effective to put in enough heat to offset how much it cools.

 

[Nectarologist]

Thanks. This is the most direct answer I’ve gotten. I want the electric heat pump... for running cost, for longevity, and for ease of installation, without the need for a gas line run to the back yard. But, I think the natural gas may be the safest way to go.

One question for you: How much does it cost you, per month, to keep your pool heated to the temp you desire, as it seems your summer temps are about what my spring and fall temps would be. My natural water temperature in April and October will be around 73 or 74°. I’d like to heat it about 10° to have comfortable swimming water.

Because you're looking to extend your swimming season, IMO, if you can do natural gas, do it. When the night temps start getting into the 50s but the daytime is mid 70s gas will keep your pool at whatever you want. But with the heat pump try to see when it would not be effective to do the job in your area and see if you're okay with how long you get to use the pool. I liked the idea of a heat pump but like you I really wanted to extend the season a bit.

I'm in zip code 10954 so you can see how your avg temps compare to mine (I assume your more mild in May/October). My gas cost is 63.473 cents per CCF. It's so hard to read these bills though. There's that cost plus a "Gas Supplly Charge" for 34.92447 cents per CCF then some other charges and a credit of some sort. So...I don't know if I will be of help but I hope so. Bottom line is I used 215 CCF of gas for a total gas charge of $249.56 for May 25-June 25 (included $10 in sales tax and a $15 credit of some sort). The average homeowner used about 40 CCF in my area according to the gas company. So I was really burning the gas up. Now June 25-July 25 will be much much less (as will July/Aug). I can update if it will help. Basic service and my typical gas usage for the grill & hot water heater would account for about $70. So i figure it cost me $180 to heat it for that month/time period. I heat the pool to 84 degrees without any type of cover. When we swim it often gets set to 86. I had figured this out about 4 years ago and was at about $4.60 / day. So I don't remember if rates have increase or the weather is different (many variables). If it was a month with tons of rain it would be lower (I'll turn off the heater if I know we won't swim for sure). I can tell you that my pool water is lower than the temps you have for April and October. I'd guess about 10 degrees lower where I am.

My fear before I got the pool was that it was going to be like opening the windows in the dead of winter and I'd have $400-$500 gas bills each month. So I'm very happy at keeping it under $200 for the worst months (Aug 25- Sept 25 will be similar). I don't know how much i'd save with a solar cover but for now I'm okay with what it is.

 

[mayberry32]

Because you're looking to extend your swimming season, IMO, if you can do natural gas, do it. When the night temps start getting into the 50s but the daytime is mid 70s gas will keep your pool at whatever you want. But with the heat pump try to see when it would not be effective to do the job in your area and see if you're okay with how long you get to use the pool. I liked the idea of a heat pump but like you I really wanted to extend the season a bit.

I'm in zip code 10954 so you can see how your avg temps compare to mine (I assume your more mild in May/October). My gas cost is 63.473 cents per CCF. It's so hard to read these bills though. There's that cost plus a "Gas Supplly Charge" for 34.92447 cents per CCF then some other charges and a credit of some sort. So...I don't know if I will be of help but I hope so. Bottom line is I used 215 CCF of gas for a total gas charge of $249.56 for May 25-June 25 (included $10 in sales tax and a $15 credit of some sort). The average homeowner used about 40 CCF in my area according to the gas company. So I was really burning the gas up. Now June 25-July 25 will be much much less (as will July/Aug). I can update if it will help. Basic service and my typical gas usage for the grill & hot water heater would account for about $70. So i figure it cost me $180 to heat it for that month/time period. I heat the pool to 84 degrees without any type of cover. When we swim it often gets set to 86. I had figured this out about 4 years ago and was at about $4.60 / day. So I don't remember if rates have increase or the weather is different (many variables). If it was a month with tons of rain it would be lower (I'll turn off the heater if I know we won't swim for sure). I can tell you that my pool water is lower than the temps you have for April and October. I'd guess about 10 degrees lower where I am.

My fear before I got the pool was that it was going to be like opening the windows in the dead of winter and I'd have $400-$500 gas bills each month. So I'm very happy at keeping it under $200 for the worst months (Aug 25- Sept 25 will be similar). I don't know how much i'd save with a solar cover but for now I'm okay with what it is.

Completely different climate, as you are in NY and I'm in GA...but very helpful feedback and I greatly appreciate it. Today, I decided to go with natural gas. I'd rather have it whenever I want than want it and not be able to accomplish the heat needed. I know the gas will cost a little more, but we can swim with no heater at all from Memorial Day until mid September. So, I'm just looking to get 3 months of moderate weather heating out of it. I don't think it will cost too much, from what I'm reading. We pay .40-.50 cents per CCF, and have a monthly $30 base meter charge. According to the engineer I spoke with today at the gas company, a 400k BTU heater will burn 4.63 therms per hour and at .50 cents per therm, it would work out to somewhere around $2.31/hr to run the pump. His opinion is that during the spring and fall, I'll only have to run it for a few hours a day to keep the pool heated to 84 degrees. Given that we won't swim every day during that period, I'd say April and October may cost me $200 each. That is well worth it to have 2 extra months of swimming.

Anyway, got started with PB today, waiting on permits and he should be starting in the next 3 weeks or so. So, we should be swimming by around Labor Day. Really excited.

 

[mayberry32]

All decisions made, except the light in the pool. He gave us the choice of 1 LED multicolor in the pool and said he could also do a halogen, which is much brighter. He will either do 2 halogens for the same price, or knock off $600 if we want only 1 halogen. He said 2 halogens is overkill and will be too bright. For the LED's, he seems to think 1 is enough, but the fact that they aren't as bright as the halogens has me worried. I asked to add another LED and he said they are expensive: $1200 to add another one. He doesn't seem to think it's needed, but the pool is 20x40 rectangle. So, it's a big pool. What are your thoughts...stick with 1 multicolor LED, or pay the money for the 2nd one?

 

[bmoreswim]

I paid for two LED's in an 18 x 38 rectangle and it's perfect for us. Our lights are on the long side of the pool. If you have one LED on the short side/deep end, it would be the best placement but on many colors it would be less light than you might like. These are somewhat brighter in the pictures than in person. For example, there is nothing like that white blob in person. It's also not something you can change later and add one. If the colors seem like a gimmick, they aren't. If you spend time out by the pool at night they are magical.

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• bmoreswim
• Aug 16, 2018

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• bmoreswim
• Aug 16, 2018

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• bmoreswim
• Aug 16, 2018

 

[Kellyp]

Mine is 20 x 40, freeform. We have 2 led. Not sure I'd have been happy with one. Like how 2 look anyway. I have color changing but honestly white looks best, I like a natural look though.

Dont have any good photos at night, will take one tonight and post for you.

I do like bmoreswims colors......finish matters, I'm sure.

 

[bmoreswim]

By default I keep them on a slow rotation through the colors.

 

[mguzzy]

I have a 20ish by 40ish hour glass-ish shaped freeform pool. There is one 250W halogen in the deep end pointing toward the shallow end but on the near side of the pool so you the light is pointing away from the approach to the pool. it lights up the pool just fine for night swimming and effect. Since my pool is more than 20years old I am limited by lighting options. We put little colored covers over the light to change color LED's didn't even exist back then. But you are building new and there is definitely the desire to get it right the first time, I get that. So keep this in mind: Halogens are brighter and cheaper to replace, but don't last as long as LED's and draw more power. The cost difference between LED and halogens is substantial. I don't know why, I think it's a way to mark up pool prices since they are a specialty item and they are the newer technology. The price is bound to come down at some point. So, maybe consider putting in two halogens but make sure they use the type of enclosures that can accommodate an LED bulb down the road. just an idea.

 

[Kellyp]

As I said, with my finish, wet edge tahoe, I prefer the white lights, which show a gorgeous blue color. The entire pool is well lit no shadowy area

 

[mayberry32]

I added the 2nd LED this afternoon. I’d rather be safe than sorry.