New Hot Tub Owner

[randomann]

Hi All,
We love our new hot tub! It is a Tropic Seas Rio Elite. 315 gallons. It is tucked away in our back yard which is basically woods.
We have the @ease Frog inline system and to be honest it appears to be quite wasteful and certainly not economical. However, we want to get the best water for us and the best protection for our investment - so I found you
Not sure where to start! I guess, testing kit - but even then, I am unclear as to which kit would be best suited to my needs. Any suggestions as to where to start?
Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
I suggest the TF-100 or Taylor K2006C. A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[randomann]

Roger that and thanks! On it! Lots to learn!

 

[phonedave]

Roger that and thanks! On it! Lots to learn!

Be aware that if you read the directions for your test kit and then use it when using the Frog @ease you may have a heart attack.

Once of the basic tests that you need to do in a pool / spa is the test for Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chloramines (CC)

In very simplistic terms, Free Chlorine is the amount of sanitizer that is waiting around for something to do. Combined Chloramines are formed when the FC has reacted with something in the water in order to disinfect it. CCs will eventually off gas and dissipate. (CC's are also what gives you the smell that everybody associates with Chlorine)

The target number for your FC will vary based on a number of things, but you want your CC's to be at or very close to 0. If they are high, it means something is in your tub and the chlorine is working on destroying it.

HOWEVER. The Frog system uses a different sort of chlorine that registers on the CC test in the kit, when it is not really CC. If you test your tub when using the Frog system, your FC results will be pretty accurate. However your CC will be off the chart, regardless of the actual amount of CC's in your tub. Don't panic when you see that.

Many people (myself included) recommend not using the frog system. There are a host of problems it can cause (and not just the false CC reading). I used it for 3 months or so (the amount that came with my tub) and then switched over to just plain bleach (and Muriatic Acid, and the very rare addition of baking soda)

 

[wireform]

Cons​

There are a few downsides to mineral systems. You should be aware of them before you invest in a mineral-based sanitizer system.

Potentially Costly​

Mineral systems can seem inexpensive to set up. A complete inline kit with a cartridge will probably run less than $250. But, the hidden costs of sequestrants, non-chlorine shock, and potentially needing to change your water due to excessive levels of chlorine stabilizer or metal buildup can catch you off guard.

You Still Need Chemicals​

Even the best mineral sanitizers will need a supplemental chemical to help. Mineral systems take too long to kill algae effectively on their own, so you will still need to maintain an adequate level of either bromine or chlorine.

Oxidation Risks​

Metal buildup usually means copper. And where there is copper, there will be oxidation, just like on the Statue of Liberty. So, you need to keep copper levels in check. Otherwise, that same green color will begin to tarnish your pool.

 

[randomann]

Be aware that if you read the directions for your test kit and then use it when using the Frog @ease you may have a heart attack.

Once of the basic tests that you need to do in a pool / spa is the test for Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chloramines (CC)

In very simplistic terms, Free Chlorine is the amount of sanitizer that is waiting around for something to do. Combined Chloramines are formed when the FC has reacted with something in the water in order to disinfect it. CCs will eventually off gas and dissipate. (CC's are also what gives you the smell that everybody associates with Chlorine)

The target number for your FC will vary based on a number of things, but you want your CC's to be at or very close to 0. If they are high, it means something is in your tub and the chlorine is working on destroying it.

HOWEVER. The Frog system uses a different sort of chlorine that registers on the CC test in the kit, when it is not really CC. If you test your tub when using the Frog system, your FC results will be pretty accurate. However your CC will be off the chart, regardless of the actual amount of CC's in your tub. Don't panic when you see that.

Many people (myself included) recommend not using the frog system. There are a host of problems it can cause (and not just the false CC reading). I used it for 3 months or so (the amount that came with my tub) and then switched over to just plain bleach (and Muriatic Acid, and the very rare addition of baking soda)

Thanks for the explanation! My plan is to stop the Frog system and switch as you have. I am getting ready to empty, clean and refill once I get the test kit and start from scratch. I can do this!!

 

[phonedave]

Thanks for the explanation! My plan is to stop the Frog system and switch as you have. I am getting ready to empty, clean and refill once I get the test kit and start from scratch. I can do this!!

Yes you can do this.

The whole point of a spa is enjoyment and relaxation. With the method and advice you get here, that is what you will do, instead of worrying about your water, getting a rash, etc.

 

[Newdude]

Now, you very well may be smarter than me and pick up on this quicker. Probably even. But when I had my tub long before TFP, I just couldn’t wrap my head around how much chlorine it needed. I was using it daily and consuming it just as quick, but somehow thought it stacked and was always worried I’d end up with a dangerous level of FC.

Since then, now I point out to new folks that they are basically making people soup. Residual hair care products, laundry sauces, sweat, body oils, fluids, bacteria, etc…..

Having 4 people in a 500 gallon tub is the same as 160 in a 20k gallon pool. It’s SO simple with the right look at it.

So if you’re using it by yourself, consider it you making chicken noodle soup, but with people. With the fam soaking, it’s creamy chicken with wild rice. Treating it accordingly seems much less scary.

After a while you’ll get a good baseline and will kinda just know that XYZ use requires ABC sanitation, and when it sits unused for 2 weeks you’ll need much less LMNOP added daily in that time.

Your tub will tell you *exactly* what you’re consuming if you listen to it.

 

[borjis]

An ahhsome purge would also be recommended for a new tub. It gets all the junk/biofilm out of the plumbing. Then periodic purges later to prevent any biofilm from reforming in the pipes.

 

[phonedave]

Now, you very well may be smarter than me and pick up on this quicker. Probably even. But when I had my tub long before TFP, I just couldn’t wrap my head around how much chlorine it needed. I was using it daily and consuming it just as quick, but somehow thought it stacked and was always worried I’d end up with a dangerous level of FC.

Since then, now I point out to new folks that they are basically making people soup. Residual hair care products, laundry sauces, sweat, body oils, fluids, bacteria, etc…..

Having 4 people in a 500 gallon tub is the same as 160 in a 20k gallon pool. It’s SO simple with the right look at it.

So if you’re using it by yourself, consider it you making chicken noodle soup, but with people. With the fam soaking, it’s creamy chicken with wild rice. Treating it accordingly seems much less scary.

After a while you’ll get a good baseline and will kinda just know that XYZ use requires ABC sanitation, and when it sits unused for 2 weeks you’ll need much less LMNOP added daily in that time.

Your tub will tell you *exactly* what you’re consuming if you listen to it.

Also, if your tub has an Ozone generator, it will increase Cl usage (that was a surprise for me)

 

[Newdude]

Also, if your tub has an Ozone generator, it will increase Cl usage (that was a surprise for me)

Some say it’s counter productive, I have a different take:

 

[CristyW]

Hi, I am new to the forum, but have had a spa 3.5 years. I bought a place with an older model, so my only "expertise" is the school of hard knocks with this one hot tub.

When we moved in, it was maintained with a floating Frog Serene system. So it had a bromine cartridge and a mineral cartridge. Like you, I began to feel it was very wasteful to buy all these catridges and throw away all that plastic. So, I got some bromine tablets and put them in a floater and did away with the minerals. A tub of bromine tabs has lasted me over a year now.

I really like Ahh-Some cleaner as a line purge when I change water. I don't remember what I purchased in the beginning, but the first time I used Ahh-Some so much gross stuff came out that I was disgusted it had not been done before. Even new tubs can have biofilms in the lines. I like to shock it with chlorine spa shock to a pretty high level, then add the Ahh Some with the idea that it will strip off the biofilms then the chlorine can kill everything. I scoop out and wipe away any goo as I can, because that still will stick to the sides like concrete if you leave it.

I got a Taylor K2106 kit for bromine. Since I also have a chlorine SWG pool, I wish I had gotten the 2006 and just a bromine add-on, but in the long run it won't matter since you have to replace reagents yearly. If you start ordering from TFP, those reagents sometimes won't fit in the box anyway. So, what kit you get depends somewhat on how you choose to sanitize.

I also keep AquaChek strips on hand, and found a trustworthy pool store so I can double and triple check.

It is stressful to maintain something that is kept at perfect breeding temp for bacteria, has hidden lines that you can't scrub, and is used by humans that shed all kinds of "stuff." Good luck learning to relax :-D

 

[randomann]

Also, if your tub has an Ozone generator, it will increase Cl usage (that was a surprise for me)

Thanks everyone for all the usefull info!

I completed my first refill and Awwsome purge of my hot tub installed Sept 2021. Balanced water (that took a while!). Added Dichlor (dihydrate) and am ready to switch to bleach - at least I think I am! I also use Clarity once a week. I have only administered one dose (it's only been a week).
I am checking my TA, CYA, FC, CC (TC), pH daily.
Today:
pH = 7.5 per Taylor (the pH pen is reading much higher and I had to pick one, so I chose the Taylor kit. (I calibrated the pen but I don't trust it)
TA = 60
CYA = 30
FC = 2.5
CC = 1.0
TC = 3.5
Pool math says to add 6.2 oz of 6% bleach (gallon)"by volume" to reach your target. Does that mean I add 6.2 oz of bleach? It is the "by volume" that I find very confusing. Per TFP hot tub thread I should keep my FC between 3-6. This is a hot tub and not a pool (clearly there is a difference!)
Also, for the other recommended additions in Pool Math - they suggest ounces many times for dry additives - is the expectation to convert to teaspoon/tablespoon etc? I know I'll get it eventually. It's my first go around and I am getting better and being the mini chemist.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Over Thinking Mary Ann

 

[Mdragger88]

1- yes it just means 6.2 liquid oz of bleach
If you had stronger bleach it would be less. By volume means just means its a liquid measurement (ie- 8oz by vol. is a cup) vs by weight (ie- 8oz is 1/2 a lb.)

2- always follow the FC/CYA Levels - your target is 4-6 ppm your shock level is 12ppm. You never want to fall below the min of 2ppm.
The amount of fc needed to sanitize is always dependent upon the cya level. PoolMath adjusts for this.
* You currently have cc’s of 1 so going to shock level now should knock that out.*
Many dose to or close to shock level after each use so there’s enough fc to oxidize current bather waste & then have enough residual to get you through/to the tub’s next use the following day. YMMV. Daily testing & figuring out your usage patterns will determine your needs.

3- i use google conversions for going from oz to tbs with wet & dry ingredients- it has always worked pretty well.
I should know them by now but I always look them up.

 

[Newdude]

the pH pen is reading much higher and I had to pick one, so I chose the Taylor kit. (I calibrated the pen but I don't trust it)

at times you may trust it. If it's close, great. Any questions lean towards the drops.

Pool math says to add 6.2 oz of 6% bleach (gallon)"by volume" to reach your target. Does that mean I add 6.2 oz of bleach? It is the "by volume"

Liquids are measured by volume. Volume fills a container of some sort. A tablespoon / cup / gallon / etc. 8 ounces of any liquid is a cup for example. Look for the 'fluid oz' description.

Measured by weight, say with powder chemicals, it's measured as such with a scale because 8 oz of 2 different powders may have different volumes. For pool/spa chemistry they don't need to be that exact so eyeballing is fine. If you need 8 oz by weight from a 1 lb (16oz) bag, Dump half of it in. With a bigger bag it gets much harder to guess so you may need to split a big bag into a few equal parts and then estimate 1/3 (etc) from there.

 

[randomann]

1- yes it just means 6.2 liquid oz of bleach
If you had stronger bleach it would be less. By volume means just means its a liquid measurement (ie- 8oz by vol. is a cup) vs by weight (ie- 8oz is 1/2 a lb.)

2- always follow the FC/CYA Levels - your target is 4-6 ppm your shock level is 12ppm. You never want to fall below the min of 2ppm.
The amount of fc needed to sanitize is always dependent upon the cya level. PoolMath adjusts for this.
* You currently have cc’s of 1 so going to shock level now should knock that out.*
Many dose to or close to shock level after each use so there’s enough fc to oxidize current bather waste & then have enough residual to get you through/to the tub’s next use the following day. YMMV. Daily testing & figuring out your usage patterns will determine your needs.

3- i use google conversions for going from oz to tbs with wet & dry ingredients- it has always worked pretty well.
I should know them by now but I always look them up.

This is awesome! Many thanks! I forgot aboutthe FC/CYA chart. And you confirmed the conversions that I was doing - I was overthinking....my MO. I will shock.