Need help to start newly filled retiled old pool

[minidolphin]

Yes, that’s the one. It will make testing easier and more reliable, worth every cent.

Testing wise the tests have a high and low res with a corresponding sample size. Not everything needs to be super accurate and you can save time and reagent by using the low res. Free chlorine, FC, calcium hardness, CH, low res, 10ml sample. Total alkalinity, TA, high res, 25ml sample. There’s a couple of things you can do for the pH and CyA test to.

Going back to the Viron V25, if you don’t have the manual get it off the Astral web site. The newer versions have Bluetooth and can be controlled via their app. I find it easier to adjust the timer and out put via the app.

Thanks AUSpool. Yes we have the V25 with bluetooth, but hasn't read the manual thoroughly to set it up via app. Will do

 

[minidolphin]

Welcome, @minidolphin!

All the basics seem to be covered, not much to add for now.

Once you have your kit we can get started. Until then, keep adding about 5ppm worth of liquid chlorine per day.

Where in Australia are you? More towards moderate or tropical climate? Water temperature makes me think more Melbourne and less Brisbane...

Don't take the recommended levels too literal, thinking you need to be at ideal level for everything, we'll talk you through that. The 80ppm CYA recommendation for SWGs for example is intended for summer, no point getting up there for the end of the season.

Hi mgtfp, thanks! How do I workout how much chlorine to reach 5ppm/day, using the pool math table? We are in Sydney, by the way it was weather temperature, not water temperature..I didn't realize it was meant for pool water temp haha., will update! Thanks again for your help here. Yea I will update the test results and will apreciate the advices here on how to adjust which chemicals once the test kit arrives

 

[minidolphin]

Thanks AUSpool. Yes we have the V25 with bluetooth, but hasn't read the manual thoroughly to set it up via app. Will do

Just ordered the CCL battery operated automatic stirrer, thanks so much for the tips on how to do the tests as well.

 

[minidolphin]

I suggest you slow down and not drop in chemicals that you are not sure you need. That makes sense.

How did your CYA get to be 100? That is already too high if accurate. CYA was 5 when the pool was just filled up with water, then we did water test at Bunnings warehouse which result recommended us to drop 1kg of cyanuric acid, so we did. Then we tested with strip test at homeand it gave CYA: 100 and when we tested this morning at the same warehouse the CYA was 40, so we don't know which one is correct, but the strip tests have shown consistent result of CYA 100 for this few days.

Until you get your CCL test kit to give you accurate tests the only chemical you should be adding is chlorine. Everything else is fine for a few weeks while you get your test kit and adjust your chemistry in a more planned way. This is good to know, I was a bit panic to leave the water as it was.



I am not familiar with the equipment you may have in AUS. Post pics of your equipment pad.

@mgtfp @aussieta @AUSpool may be of help with your local environment.

Thanks for the advise ajw22

 

[ajw22]

I would not trust the CYA 100 reading from your test strips. I don't trust any test strips.

Wait for your CCL test to do a proper CYA test as well as other tests.

1KG = 2.2 pounds in 13,000 gallons should raise your CYA by 20 ppm. No way you have 100 ppm with that addition.

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

says with 20 ppm of CYA you should maintain a FC level of 3-5ppm. Shoot for the high side and try and keep your FC around 5 ppm.

 

[mgtfp]

Hi mgtfp, thanks! How do I workout how much chlorine to reach 5ppm/day, using the pool math table? We are in Sydney, by the way it was weather temperature, not water temperature..I didn't realize it was meant for pool water temp haha., will update! Thanks again for your help here. Yea I will update the test results and will apreciate the advices here on how to adjust which chemicals once the test kit arrives

You can use PoolMath to calculate that. Just enter the pool size and the chlorine strength. For you it would be about 2 litres of chlorine with 12.5% strength:



By the way: We Aussies here usually try to help out other Aussies as a priority, and other TFPers often tag us (like here). And we prefer much to see metric units. Would be great if you could add your pool volume also in litres to your signature, and when posting data (like temperature, volumes, etc) then also post them metric - you'd run them through a calculator anyway for conversion for the non-metric equivalents, so just post both.

And yes, we care more about water than air temperature. It's needed for example to calculate the CSI (indicator if the water is at risk to create calcium scale, or pull calcium from a plaster pool surface).

 

[minidolphin]

You can use PoolMath to calculate that. Just enter the pool size and the chlorine strength. For you it would be about 2 litres of chlorine with 12 5% strength:

View attachment 559579

By the way: We Aussies here usually try to help out other Aussies as a priority, and other TFPers often tag us (like here). And we prefer much to see metric units. Would be great if you could add your pool volume also in litres to your signature, and when posting data (like temperature, volumes, etc) then also post them metric - you'd run them through a calculator anyway for conversion for the non-metric equivalents, so just post both.

And yes, we care more about water than air temperature. It's needed for example to calculate the CSI (indicator if the water is at risk to create calcium scale, or pull calcium from a plaster pool surface).

You can use PoolMath to calculate that. Just enter the pool size and the chlorine strength. For you it would be about 2 litres of chlorine with 12 5% strength:

View attachment 559579

By the way: We Aussies here usually try to help out other Aussies as a priority, and other TFPers often tag us (like here). And we prefer much to see metric units. Would be great if you could add your pool volume also in litres to your signature, and when posting data (like temperature, volumes, etc) then also post them metric - you'd run them through a calculator anyway for conversion for the non-metric equivalents, so just post both.

And yes, we care more about water than air temperature. It's needed for example to calculate the CSI (indicator if the water is at risk to create calcium scale, or pull calcium from a plaster pool surface).

Oh thank you so much for all of that mgtfp . I will need to get myself a water temperature now

 

[minidolphin]

You can use PoolMath to calculate that. Just enter the pool size and the chlorine strength. For you it would be about 2 litres of chlorine with 12 5% strength:

View attachment 559579

By the way: We Aussies here usually try to help out other Aussies as a priority, and other TFPers often tag us (like here). And we prefer much to see metric units. Would be great if you could add your pool volume also in litres to your signature, and when posting data (like temperature, volumes, etc) then also post them metric - you'd run them through a calculator anyway for conversion for the non-metric equivalents, so just post both.

And yes, we care more about water than air temperature. It's needed for example to calculate the CSI (indicator if the water is at risk to create calcium scale, or pull calcium from a plaster pool surface).

Hi

You can use PoolMath to calculate that. Just enter the pool size and the chlorine strength. For you it would be about 2 litres of chlorine with 12 5% strength:

View attachment 559579

By the way: We Aussies here usually try to help out other Aussies as a priority, and other TFPers often tag us (like here). And we prefer much to see metric units. Would be great if you could add your pool volume also in litres to your signature, and when posting data (like temperature, volumes, etc) then also post them metric - you'd run them through a calculator anyway for conversion for the non-metric equivalents, so just post both.

And yes, we care more about water than air temperature. It's needed for example to calculate the CSI (indicator if the water is at risk to create calcium scale, or pull calcium from a plaster pool surface).

Oh thank you so much for all of that mgtfp . I will need to get myself a water thermometer now

 

[minidolphin]

Hi again, (history: new pool owner, 2 wks ago filled up the pool & added a few chemicals, then stopped till Taylor K2006 Salt test kit arrived) The kit arrived & here are the test result: FC 7.6 ; Total Chlor 10 ; TA 110 ; CH 200 ; pH 7.6 ; CYA 30 ; salinity 4500; Bromine 0. Water temp: 27.6 degrees C
From what I read here the CYA is too low, I can add 2L CYA to bring it up to .
FC is high, shall we leave it? We just started the chlorinator (SWG)
TA is too high because added too much in the beginning, reduce it?
CH is not ideal. Leave it?
Also is it safe to have the SWG on with this level? I have not done any setting on it, what do I need to know to set it?
Any advice will be appreciated, and thanks in advance

 

[Bperry]

Hi again, (history: new pool owner, 2 wks ago filled up the pool & added a few chemicals, then stopped till Taylor K2006 Salt test kit arrived) The kit arrived & here are the test result: FC 7.6 ; Total Chlor 10 ; TA 110 ; CH 200 ; pH 7.6 ; CYA 30 ; salinity 4500; Bromine 0. Water temp: 27.6 degrees C
From what I read here the CYA is too low, I can add 2L CYA to bring it up to .
FC is high, shall we leave it? We just started the chlorinator (SWG)
TA is too high because added too much in the beginning, reduce it?
CH is not ideal. Leave it?
Also is it safe to have the SWG on with this level? I have not done any setting on it, what do I need to know to set it?
Any advice will be appreciated, and thanks in advance

Your FC is fine. You want to test for CC (combined chlorine) cause something is off with the total chlor result.

 

[minidolphin]

Your FC is fine. You want to test for CC (combined chlorine) cause something is off with the total chlor result.

ok, did you mean to re test the total chlorine ? (combined chlorine is another terminology for total chlorine, right?)

 

[Bperry]

ok, did you mean to re test the total chlorine ? (combined chlorine is another terminology for total chlorine, right?)

No. Total chlorine is a made up term that’s the result of adding the free chlorine and combined chlorine together like this. FC+CC= TC.

Your kit can get both the FC and CC so reporting the TC isn’t useful. The TC is common in other test kits that can’t test CC.

 

[minidolphin]

No. Total chlorine is a made up term that’s the result of adding the free chlorine and combined chlorine together like this. FC+CC= TC.

Your kit can get both the FC and CC so reporting the TC isn’t useful. The TC is common in other test kits that can’t test CC.

My mistake: the TC is actually CC, so combined chlorine is 10

 

[mknauss]

A CC of 10 is not possible chemically. Retest.

 

[Bperry]

My mistake: the TC is actually CC, so combined chlorine is 10

You’re using the powder that makes the water pink and adding drops to make it clear? The FAS-DPD test is required for that. Like Marty says, can’t have a CC of 10ppm unless something is very very wrong.

 

[minidolphin]

Thanks Mcnauss and Bperry, we'll restest today and post the result.

 

[mgtfp]

Just to clarify: You first test FC by adding the powder (R-0870, CCL reagent 2) and than add drops of R-0871 (CCL reagent 3) until clear. Then move on to testing CC by adding 5 drops of R-0003 (CCL reagent 4), which will turn the sample pink again if CCs are present. Then drops of R-0871 until clear again, giving you the CC-reading.

TC can be calculated as TC = FC + CC, but is pointless as we are actually interested in FC and CC.

Don't bother with the 25ml test with 0.2ppm/drop resolution, 10ml with 0.5ppm/drop is sufficient and saves lots of reagent.

 

[minidolphin]

Thanks Mcnauss and Bperry, we'll restest today and post the result.

Update on the results: FC 1.8ppm, CC zero, water temperature 26.3 degrees C

 

[minidolphin]

Just to clarify: You first test FC by adding the powder (R-0870, CCL reagent 2) and than add drops of R-0871 (CCL reagent 3) until clear. Then move on to testing CC by adding 5 drops of R-0003 (CCL reagent 4), which will turn the sample pink again if CCs are present. Then drops of R-0871 until clear again, giving you the CC-reading.

TC can be calculated as TC = FC + CC, but is pointless as we are actually interested in FC and CC.

Don't bother with the 25ml test with 0.2ppm/drop resolution, 10ml with 0.5ppm/drop is sufficient and saves lots of reagent.

Thanks for clarifying the steps mgtfp, I read your message after doing the test just now. It was not so clear, if the same tube of water from testing FC be reused to test CC. We reused the same water in the tube from testing the FC anyway and followed the exact steps you described. Water did not change back to pink after 5 drops of R-0003. So there was no CC present. FC result 1.8ppm, CC zero, water temp/ 26.3 degrees C

 

[mgtfp]

Thanks for clarifying the steps mgtfp, I read your message after doing the test just now. It was not so clear, if the same tube of water from testing FC be reused to test CC. We reused the same water in the tube from testing the FC anyway and followed the exact steps you described. Water did not change back to pink after 5 drops of R-0003. So there was no CC present. FC result 1.8ppm, CC zero, water temp/ 26.3 degrees C

Glad to hear there is no combined chlorine.

FC is a bit low. Try to err on the high side rather than the low side. The 7.6 from you had previously was much better. Something to get your head around, that chlorine is your friend.

Without CYA, FC above 1 or 2 is actually quite much, but with CYA 30, you can swim in FC 12 with no problem. I just have a deeper explanation for that thus morning to someone else, so I'm just recovering to that:

The way CYA protects chlorine from UV is that a large portion (like 95%) of the free chlorine (FC) attaches to it, where it is protected from UV light, but also hasn't any oxidiser or sanitiser effect anymore, but unfortunately stills shows up as FC in the test. That's why it is important to adjust the FC-level following TFP's recommended FC/CYA Levels.

The advantage of this is that the chlorine that is attached to CYA doesn't bother anyone, it doesn't feel harsh or aggressive to swimming gear or pool equipment. It is a nice reservoir of chlorine, as the actually "active" part of FC (the 5% that aren't attached to CYA) gets lost doing its job killing nasties and oxidising bather waste.

This makes a residential pool much easier to manage. From above linked FC/CYA chart you'll see that for
CYA 30, we recommend an FC target range of 4-6ppm, and never fall below 2ppm. Up to SLAM level (used to clear an algae infestation), which is FC 12 for CYA 30, is safe to swim.

Without CYA, above target range would be equivalent to around FC 0.15 to 0.2ppm, never fall below about 0.1ppm. SLAM is equivalent to 0.64ppm. These ranges are difficult to maintain in a residential setting. Just one kid mistaking your pool with bath room can be enough to wipe out all of the FC. But maintaining higher levels makes the water feel very unpleasant.

That's where a bit of CYA in an indoor pool makes a huge difference. You can maintain say 5ppm of FC, but the "active" portion is only about 0.15ppm. If you lose those those 0.15ppm, it gets replenished from the "reservoir", and you have effectively only lost 0.15 out of 5 ppm (a 3% loss) rather than 0.15 out of 0.15 (a 100% loss).

The bit I am highlighting in this post for indoor pools (because that was the question in this thread) applies of course also for outdoor pools, just that on top of the mentioned effect you really need CYA in an outdoor pool for UV-Protection. But it explains why you actually need higher FC levels with CYA than without and why these higher levels are not dangerous or anything, but actually required to keep a pool sanitary and free of algae.