Need help choosing a second filter for vacuuming

[Schwim Dandy]

Hi there everyone!

I've got an aboveground 24ft round 50 inch tall pool in coastal VA, US. It is filled by very terrible quality well water on the property. When having to fill the pool, it fills with lots of grit and contaminates and knocks the water out of balance badly(copper ionized pool using shock to keep in check). The filter system is a sand filter that's now using the puffy cotton ball media to filter.

If possible, I would like to be able to vacuum the pool while recirculating the water instead of sending it off into my yard. To this end, I figured I'd get myself a second, more easily cleaned filter system that I can pipe in and use when I need to clean the pool.

I grew up in south FL and we lived and died by the cartridge filter systems. Once a week, I'd swap one out, and clean whichever one got removed for the next go-around. For this pool, I tried a very cheap Intex cartridge filter/pump combo from Amazon but while the system technically works, it wasn't capturing small enough media and was instead recirculating the smallest filth back into the pool.

Before I dive into any more rabbit holes, I was wondering if anyone might have a suggestion about a filter system that won't break the bank that will work well enough to do what I'm aiming to achieve, that being recirculating clean water back into the pool from what's getting vacuumed up. Should I just aim for a larger cartridge filter system or is there something better I can use to handle the cleaning duties?

Thanks for your time!

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Why not put sand in your sand filter and let it do it's job? I don't know much about filter media but never heard of puffy cotton ball media. One of the benefits of a sand filter, assuming you don't use floc and/or clarifier is that it can filter pretty good and if you need better filtering a little DE can go into it and help filter to a finer level. Putting floc or clarifier will gunk up your sand.

They also sell filters for when you're filling the pool to get rid of the grit and stuff: https://www.amazon.com/hose-end-water-filter/s?k=hose+end+water+filter

 

[Schwim Dandy]

Why not put sand in your sand filter and let it do it's job? I don't know much about filter media but never heard of puffy cotton ball media. One of the benefits of a sand filter, assuming you don't use floc and/or clarifier is that it can filter pretty good and if you need better filtering a little DE can go into it and help filter to a finer level. Putting floc or clarifier will gunk up your sand.

They also sell filters for when you're filling the pool to get rid of the grit and stuff: https://www.amazon.com/hose-end-water-filter/s?k=hose+end+water+filter

Thank you very much for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.

Some clarification to some of my stuff and why I'm doing this:

The filter media I'm using is this product where each bag equates to 50 lbs of sand. At the end of the season, it's advertised that you can wash them and use them for the next season.

The pool installer(and servicing contractor, had I chosen) advised against using the sand filter during vacuuming and instructed I use the "waste" setting. They had said with the level of material I'm vacuuming, I'd overwhelm the sand filter before the season was out, even with backwashing.

I've not used anything other than shock and some PH lowering to the water. I just accept that the water won't be clear.

I believe my well water would quickly overwhelm a hose-end filter. This is just to give you an idea of what I'm working with and why I want to minimize pool filling:

Pre-filtration:

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Thank you very much for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.

Some clarification to some of my stuff and why I'm doing this:

The filter media I'm using is this product where each bag equates to 50 lbs of sand. At the end of the season, it's advertised that you can wash them and use them for the next season.

The pool installer(and servicing contractor, had I chosen) advised against using the sand filter during vacuuming and instructed I use the "waste" setting. They had said with the level of material I'm vacuuming, I'd overwhelm the sand filter before the season was out, even with backwashing.

I've not used anything other than shock and some PH lowering to the water. I just accept that the water won't be clear.

I believe my well water would quickly overwhelm a hose-end filter. This is just to give you an idea of what I'm working with and why I want to minimize pool filling:

Pre-filtration:

View attachment 522157

As far as I know the sand in a sand filter can be used over and over and aver again. People use their filter to clean up a swampy pool all the time. It will not filter very fine particles but it will take a lot of that stuff out. You have to watch the pressure gauge and when it gets to 25% higher than the starting pressure you backwash, rinse and start again. You can deep clean a sand filter: Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter to start fresh next year OR if you really need to clean a filter at any time as long as you can isolate the pool from the filter. Once you get the water looking cleaner or maybe just cloudy that's when you'd put in DE into the sand filter : Add DE to a Sand Filter

I would imagine getting a large cartridge filter could be beneficial but it's probably going to clog up very fast and having a couple of sets of cartridges to swap out as they clog up for a quick change. But I think what you were told about the sand filter may be wrong. If your current cotton balls aren't working they may not be able to filter well.

 

[kellyfair]

Your installer is dead wrong about sand. As long as you don’t gunk it up with floc, it will last longer than your filter housing will last, and it is totally capable of getting and keeping your pool crystal clear.

With such terrible fill water, I would fill it, allow the dirt to settle and vacuum as much to waste as you can. Get rid of the copper ionizer and get yourself a decent test kit.

Test Kits Compared

Once you can test properly, follow the SLAM process below.

SLAM Process

You might also want a robot that has ultra fine filter basket, to continue picking up particles as they settle.

Or, consider pre-filtering your fill water. Do a search on how people use fiberfill in buckets to filter out metals - maybe could help you get a lot of the gunk out before it makes it into your pool.

 

[CT-Steven]

You are roughly at 14k gallons Can you please provide the pump and filter size as well as if you have items like skimmers. I am wondering if you are undersized as your pool guy seems to be mis guiding you a little bit.
There is no reason why your water cannot be crystal clear.

 

[Schwim Dandy]

Hello there everyone and thanks very much for the help!

Get rid of the copper ionizer and get yourself a decent test kit.

Can you explain the issue with the ionizor? Is it something you just don't like, does it damage anything or similar? I'm not averse to chlorine, it was just explained that it made traditional chlorination of pools unnecessary and my family seems to like not having the smells or dried out hair of a chlorine pool.

Can you please provide the pump and filter size as well as if you have items like skimmers. I am wondering if you are undersized as your pool guy seems to be mis guiding you a little bit.

Sure thing.
Pump: Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5HP SPL(70GPM) 1081 Pool pump duty
Filter: Hayward Pro Series Model S180T

Let me know if there's any other info I can provide to help make a path toward a clean pool.

 

[Newdude]

Can you explain the issue with the ionizor?

It adds metals which build over time and eventually stain the pool and swimmers. No joke my kids hair was statue of liberty green.

They also got wicked rashes from the unsanitary pool skimping on chlorine.

it was just explained that it made traditional chlorination of pools unnecessary

Bold faced lies. It is a secondary sanitizer. You need 100% of a primary sanitizer and the government doesn't recognize them as primary for good reason.

Are you saying you add no chlorine at all ?

 

[Mdragger88]

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...

www.google.com

You already have a metals problem from the well (iron) adding more metals with the ionizer is like pouring kerosene on the fire. Remove it from the plumbing.
Also Without adequate sanitizer lots of nasty things can happen - namely person to person transmission of pathogens
There’s only 3 approved primary sanitizers-
Chlorine (recommended)
Bromine (not appropriate for outdoor pools)
& biguanide (not recommended due to high cost & many complications)
If you’re already using chlorine just use the proper amounts & be done.
A properly chlorinated pool doesn’t have smells (that’s usually cc’s & they’re a sign of an undersanitized pool)
Dried out hair & skin are often the result of improper ph which happens alot with pools that use Trichlor pucks for daily chlorination as they are quite acidic.
We recommend using liquid chlorine for daily chlorination as it only adds chlorine and nothing else.
Get adequate fc in the water asap via 5ppm worth of liquid chlorine
FC/CYA Levels use
PoolMath for calculations
and do this for the iron

If you’ve got iron in your fill water, use Polyfill to remove it

EDIT: Found out this method only works if your iron is oxidized already, meaning it’s got a dull or bright green tint to the water, or a nasty brown tint. If you know you have iron in your fill water, but it isn’t oxidized yet, bring your pool to shock level and it’ll turn the telltale green...

www.google.com

About the balls….
I guarantee when you have to dig in & grab all those nasty slimy filter balls you won’t wanna dare put them in your washing machine & you’ll have to replace them with more or something else.
Sand on the other hand almost never needs replacing- just backwashed when needed & a deep clean with the water hose every couple seasons is sufficient if you don’t mess it up with floc or clarifiers.
As mentioned you can add a little DE for finer filtering if needed.
To clean up your pool you will need a proper test kit (tf100 or taylor k2006c)
You can attempt to vacuum with a skimmer sock on the skimmer basket to help catch the bulk of the goo.
There’s also slime bags on the returns or even using a skimmer sock.
Here’s more info about how to deal with well fill water that contains iron as well as sediment.

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Schwim Dandy]

Are you saying you add no chlorine at all ?

Just shock and chemicals to balance the PH. I've not added any liquid chlorine or tablets to the pool to this point. Up until this conversation, I had been sold a tale that the ionizer replaced the chlorine. Tomorrow, I'll go purchase some liquid chlorine and begin getting the water in balance. I have a full test kit that I purchased a couple weeks ago that I've been using for all of the tests(except chlorine, of course). I'll start paying attention to the chlorine portion of the test.

Get adequate fc in the water asap via 5ppm worth of liquid chlorine

I'll begin working on that first thing tomorrow.

Regarding the balls, I tried them because by the end of the first season last year, when I broke down the pump and filter to winterize, the sand had what looked like oxidized copper across the top of it and the pressure had continued to build in spite of backflushing. After talking with you guys, I understand now that the water was being completely mishandled by me so I probably won't use the balls next season but will swap back to sand. I'm thinking I'll try the DE as well, following the tutorial on this site as I think the sand alone will be incapable of getting the smallest of my contaminates.

 

[Mdragger88]

Here’s the guides for you

Add DE to a Sand Filter

A clean pool filter will increase the efficiency of your pool! ... your filter are to backwash it, clean the manifolds and grids, and add new DE.

www.google.com

Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

This post will walk you through the anatomy of a sand filter, and then provide a video at the end for how to deep clean your sand filter. The filter used in the photos and videos is a Hayward S180T top mount sand filter. The images are of a similar filter. Obviously not all filters are...

www.google.com

How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Just Filled Your Pool with Water? Here's What To Do Next - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

What kit do you have?

 

[kellyfair]

I'm thinking I'll try the DE as well, following the tutorial on this site as I think the sand alone will be incapable of getting the smallest of my contaminates.

Certainly you can try DE - nothing wrong with that at all. I just wanted to reassure you that if you don’t decide to supplement with DE, you can still have a beautifully clear pool with a sand filter. We have hundreds of people on the forum who do.

 

[Newdude]

I think the sand alone will be incapable of getting the smallest of my contaminates.

Well yes and no. Your yard debris will clog any of the 3 filters and remains a constant no matter which way you go. That crud will trap even finer crud, so ultimately your yard decides your filtration abilities.

All 3 end up in the same place, the sand filter just might take a bit longer to get there when it's first cleaned.

 

[W.J.Christy]

The majority of pool shock is either liquid chlorine, granular calcium hypochlorite, dichlor, or trichlor all of which have chlorine in them. There are some non-chlorine shocks out there but not very commonly do we see them. You have to be careful when using dichlor or trichlor as both have cya and can cause your needed chlorine levels to increase to an unmanageable level. Liquid chlorine is what we recommend most.

Just shock and chemicals to balance the PH. I've not added any liquid chlorine or tablets to the pool to this poin

 

[Schwim Dandy]

The majority of pool shock is either liquid chlorine, granular calcium hypochlorite, dichlor, or trichlor all of which have chlorine in them. There are some non-chlorine shocks out there but not very commonly do we see them. You have to be careful when using dichlor or trichlor as both have cya and can cause your needed chlorine levels to increase to an unmanageable level. Liquid chlorine is what we recommend most.

Do you suggest using liquid chlorine only, meaning no shock at all? Or is shock still necessary when using chlorine?

I'm reading the links shared above, just haven't gotten to anything regarding that yet.

 

[Schwim Dandy]

What kit do you have?

 

[W.J.Christy]

Liquid chlorine only for now. Technically liquid chlorine is shock just without the added cya or calcium.

 

[Newdude]

Do you suggest using liquid chlorine only, meaning no shock at all?

Correct. If you are properly maintaining the pool, you'll never need to shock it back to health.

Do it the pool store / service way with inattentiveness and weekly testing, and you'll be shocking all the time.

This kit

You need a CYA test kit, a Calcium (CH) test kit and a K1515 fas/dpd test kit for FC.

You can add them to your kit, or purchase a
Test Kits Compared

 

[Newdude]

Do you suggest using liquid chlorine only, meaning no shock at all?

Correct. If you are properly maintaining the pool, you'll never need to shock it back to health.

Do it the pool store / service way with inattentiveness and weekly testing, and you'll be shocking all the time.

This kit

You need a CYA test kit, a Calcium (CH) test and a K1515 fas/dpd test kit for FC.

You can add them to your kit, or purchase a
Test Kits Compared which includes them. Both tftestkits kits are better values than their Taylor counterparts. They're also guaranteed fresh where an Amazon (etc) purchase may have sat on a shelf for months. And the customer service is top notch.

 

[Schwim Dandy]

Hi there guys,

Is this an acceptable liquid chlorine for the pool? I tried the two hot tub stores as well as HD and Lowes and none had liquid chlorine. I have no actual pool store close to me, which is why I'm purchasing online.