Need Advice on New Build

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MauiMana

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Feb 17, 2017
24
HI
We plan on building a 10,100 gal in ground pool with a 36" sheer descent-style waterfall (w/ an approx 20" drop into pool) and am having difficulty in deciding on appropriate pump, lighting, and controller options. We would greatly appreciate some advise. Before I get into the questions I want to also mention that at a point not too far down the road we will also be adding a small fountain and surrounding pond in another area of our home, whose pump we would like to locate with our other pool equipment. The questions we have are as follows:

  1. for the pool and accompanying waterfall, should we use a single pump for both or separate pumps? One concern is that if a single pump is used then the waterfall and pool circulation process will always occur together. This could produce unwanted noise if cycle is at night, and we would also want the ability to have the waterfall running on-demand at times as well. PB is moving us towards using a single pump...
  2. Is a single pool light (Pentair LED variety) appropriate for our sized pool (24' x 12.6', w/ 4' - 5' depths), or would two lights be appropriate? We would like a nice glow of the pool at night. PB is pushing towards a single light...
  3. We'd like to illuminate the waterfall at night. We have mixed feelings with doing this via the type that include an LED strip at the waterfall's mouth. Our current thinking is to illuminate it with a ground-mounted landscape light mounted on the opposing side of the pool (approx. 14' away from waterfall). Will this provide enough focused illumination of the waterfall?
  4. With respect to the follow addition of the fountian/pond feature in that other area of the yard, should this feature's equipment be completely separate from the pool/waterfall's equipment, or are there opportunities to integrate in some manner (can't think of any beside a controller capable of managing across all three features)?
  5. And with the controller options, which Pentair controller would allow us to manage not only the pool/waterfall/fountain, but also our landscaping lighting? PB is pushing towards EasyTouch but we're concerned that it might not have the capacity to add in a modest amount of landscape lighting...

Thank you in advance for any and all advice this great community might be able to offer us.
 
Maui,

An EasyTouch 8 could control all three systems. I would keep the fountain a completely different body of water.

I personally like having one pump for the pool and a separate pump for the water features that does not go through the filter.

The ET8 can control 7 external items, like single speed pumps, poollights, landsape lights, pad light etc. plus two variable speed pumps and two to four automated valves, and a heater.

Of course it is easy for me to spend your money :)

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
Thank you all for the comments thus far. Let me just give a it more detail as to our build. As our sheer descent-style waterfall drops straight into the pool, would be still strive to not have it go through a filter? And with its own dedicated pump separate from the pool's pump, would it still be drawing its water from the pool (i.e., filtered and chlorinated source)? if not then wouldn't we essentially be adding unfiltered, unchlorinater, and unheated water into the pool every time we run the waterfall?

Also, with respect to the fountain (3rd feature), while it is separate from the pool it does sit in its own 'reflection pond'. The idea was that the fountain would spill into the pond, thus the pump for this 3rd feature would draw from the pond the fountain sat in... are there any issues with this idea?

And in respect to the EasyTouch 8, with our setup (3 features, pool lighting, and several series of landscape lighting) would we be better off upgrading to the IntelliTouch, or would that be needless expense?

Again, thank you guys for the advise...


Jimrahbe said:
Maui,

An EasyTouch 8 could control all three systems. I would keep the fountain a completely different body of water.

I personally like having one pump for the pool and a separate pump for the water features that does not go through the filter.

The ET8 can control 7 external items, like single speed pumps, poollights, landsape lights, pad light etc. plus two variable speed pumps and two to four automated valves, and a heater.

Of course it is easy for me to spend your money :)

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
 
Maui,

I am sure there are many ways to do this, but what I would do is have one system that filters and chlorinates the water in the main pool, just like any normal pool. This system would have a variable speed pump.

I would have a second vs pump that takes already chlorinated and filtered water from the main pool directly to the waterfall. (This could be a single speed pump if you wish, but a vs pump would control the volume going over the waterfall.)

I would have a completely separate pump, chlorinator, and filter for the pond. This would be a single speed pump.

The EasyTouch 8 would be able to control everything on the main pool with no issues.

The ET 8 would turn on/off the pump for the waterfall. Having a vs pump would allow you to adjust the volume of water, but single speed pump would work. The ET 8 would also allow you to control any landscape lighting for the waterfall

The ET 8 would also control the single speed pump used for the fountain/pond. Plus any pond lighting.

If me, I'd tell my Pool Builder exactly what I wanted and he should be able to tell you for sure if an EasyTouch 8 will work or not. At this point I can't see any reason it would not work...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I will touch on the light for the pool waterfall. I really do not think a light shining from 14 feet away would do it justice. I saw a build just a little while ago that had the lights inside the overflow and it was SO pretty! I also LOVE the bench with the light on it shining up in Marla's pool!

Marla do you have a picture of your light at night? I looked at your build thread but..........could not find one. Lots of other pretty pictures but not that one.

Kim:kim:
 
the single led light will provide an amazing amount of white light, on the pump for the 3 ft. sheer descent water feature , you need apx 10 gpm per ft. depending on the projection of water into the pool a 1/2 hp pentair whisper flow will provide ample flow & should you desire more you can up - grade by putting a 3/4 hp impeller on the pump all the adjoining parts are the same , on the discharge side plumb a return line back to the pool so you can meter the water as desired, this pump is less expensive than the verable speed one.
 
Maui,

What Stevie says above about the pump selection is very true... but the whole point of automation is being able to control things remotely. With a vs pump you can simply touch an icon on your phone or PC and adjust the flow you want to the specific occasion.. With a metering valve, you have to actually go to the site and manually turn the valve. The cost difference between a vs pump and a single speed pump, in comparison to the overall cost of a new pool is almost unnoticeable.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
There are no LED strip lights that I am aware of that can be installed within five feet of a pool. Everything installed within five feet of a pool must be "listed" by UL or another testing agency. I know of no LED strip lights that are. There are several small LED pool lights that will work. Talk to your PB.
 

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Thanks everyone...

With the waterfall that has a built in LED strip, CMP makes a "Brilliant Colors" one, we actually steered away from this because we felt it looked a bit odd to have such a stark strip of light at the mouth of the waterfall, and it also diddent seem to really illuminate the falling water much. But maybe we just looked at the wrong pictures.

With the flow rate(s) of the waterfall, I'm not sure we'd necessarily have a desire to throttle the flow up or down, just turn it on/off on-demand (and yes, remotely as was pointed out). When we wanted it on, I'd imagine we'd want it flowing with a nice projection.

And with the idea of illuminating the waterfall from a bench located below the waterfall, as the waterfall sits directly on the pool's edge I'm assuming that this would be a submerged bench. And if so, would the light sit flush on the surface of the bench, or ???
 
Yes it is a submerged bench. There have been several builds with them and have found them to be well used! People seem to like to sit on them to hang out. The light could sit flush on the surface of the bench if wanted.

Kim:kim:
 
I am currently in the middle of a pool build, I have 3 24" sheers and I have decided to go with sheers from a company called cmp. The LED lighted sheers are called brilliant wonderfalls. I choose them because you can perform maintenance on the lights from the front without removing the entire unit. Meaning if the lights fail you can just replace the light strip from the front of the unit. It also comes with a rock trap to eliminate debris getting stuck in the sheer, especially if you get a pebble finish. I am running the sheers off my main 3HP variable pump. I will also have a easy touch 8 and put an actuator valve on the sheers so I can start and stop the sheers with a remote. I can choose to circulate with or without the sheers running and can also coordinate the sheer lights with the pool light. They should be installed in the next week or so. I will also have landscape lighting hooked up to the ETA 8. Depends on the photos you look at, it does show varying degrees of intensity. My wall behind the sheers will be glass tile so hoping it will be more reflective than stone or rock.

Kim
 
Sounds like a nice option, and very spa-like as one could do the whole waterfall on the shoulders thing. Would you happen to have a picture or two of the lighted bench (at night and also a clear shot during the day). Also, any issue of the light being too bright, and not sure if one can dim such lights via either a fixed level or via the ET8...

kimkats said:
Yes it is a submerged bench. There have been several builds with them and have found them to be well used! People seem to like to sit on them to hang out. The light could sit flush on the surface of the bench if wanted.

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like a nice build. We had also looked at CMP's LED-lite sheers but for our 'pseudo-asian' theme we thought the that type of lighting wouldn't really go, still considering though. Quick question regarding your decision to use a single pump to control the pool as well as the sheers. First, which pump did you select, and second, can you please elaborate a bit on what's involved in allowing one to mix and match so to speak between running the pool and running the sheers... and being able to do that remotely. Are you using a diverter valve that is remotely controllable via the ET8? Thanks...


Rokihunter said:
I am currently in the middle of a pool build, I have 3 24" sheers and I have decided to go with sheers from a company called cmp. The LED lighted sheers are called brilliant wonderfalls. I choose them because you can perform maintenance on the lights from the front without removing the entire unit. Meaning if the lights fail you can just replace the light strip from the front of the unit. It also comes with a rock trap to eliminate debris getting stuck in the sheer, especially if you get a pebble finish. I am running the sheers off my main 3HP variable pump. I will also have a easy touch 8 and put an actuator valve on the sheers so I can start and stop the sheers with a remote. I can choose to circulate with or without the sheers running and can also coordinate the sheer lights with the pool light. They should be installed in the next week or so. I will also have landscape lighting hooked up to the ETA 8. Depends on the photos you look at, it does show varying degrees of intensity. My wall behind the sheers will be glass tile so hoping it will be more reflective than stone or rock.

Kim
Click to expand...
 
I will be using the pentair Intelliflo 3HP variable speed pump. When the circulation and sheers are running at the same time the pump RPM will be higher when the sheers shut off via a valve actuator connected to the ETA I can program the pump to run at a lower RPM. As soon as they install the equipment I will be happy to send you a picture. I will say that my equipment pad is very close to the pool, 15 ft from my feature wall at a straight Run which helped me in the decision not to get a separate pump for the sheers, I have no spa.

Kim
 
We're very curious about the option of a flush-mount light embedded within a bench underneath the waterfall. The pentair intellibrite5G lights still have a bit of a dome to the sense, and I'm not sure if they could be cracked if someone sat on them. Can someone please direct me to some lights that are perhaps more tailor made for seating surface applications like this. Thanks.
 
Sorry, I was out of town and didn't have any pics of my lighted bench. I took a couple this morning with just the white light on. Also please excuse the debris at the bottom. :D. Mr. Robot will be hard at work shortly.



The scuppers are also reflected in the water since the pump isn't on.

This is with the pool light and bench light.


- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, I don't remember what brand of lights were used, but they are flush with the bench and you can sit on them.
 

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