My New Old Pool Dig Out

cboeger1974

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
35
St. Louis missouri
Dustless glass blasting completed on the shell today. Guy said it was one of the hardest shells he has ever worked on. Said normally small pieces of concrete and stone come off with the paint removal on normal shells - not on this one. Doesn't appear to be any major cracks. Some slight surface cracking but nothing that appears to be all the way through the shell. He blasted the top of the shell as well to remove any loose concrete. I will go through and continue with a rock hammer to remove any additional loose pieces. Now for some plumbing work.
I'm guessing that sika stuff is pricey. The concrete you have now is 4000 max. Cheapest easiest way is bonding agent and forms after epoxy pinning rebar or even a small cage if needed. You could do a delivery if there is site access. Otherwise grab pallets and run them back with a skidsteer to a 2 bag mixer. If you add a littlen plasticizer to 5k bagged mix amd use no more than specified water yiu have very strong concrete.......and its cheap
JimmytheGreek I have a question that I know you cannot guarantee or give an 100% accurate answer because there are a lot a variables at play. Lets assume that I complete the cleanup and removal of loose concrete perfectly (I am trying my best) and the conditions are optimal and I use the Sika concrete product or a modified cement product similar to that - what do you think the longevity of the repair will be? I don't want to do this again in 5 years. If its a 20 year repair that would make me feel much better about the work I am putting into this. If its 10 years I may consider reshooting the walls on this pool building a rebar cage inside of the existing walls. In 5 years I will be in my 50's and don't know if the body can take this kind of harsh abuse again. 8 hours of swinging a rock hammer hurts pretty bad the next day.
 

jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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Honestly if it were mine I would form it and pour it in one shot with the best mix the plant can send me. I'd look around for a spec mix. My supplier can fortify standard mixes, a 5000psi with some good additives is strong stuff, stronger than what you have there now. I'd spend my time epoxy pinning the heck out of it and making sure it's really nice. Bigger plants have engineering reps that know their concrete amd often have good suggestions and advice, they do it all day long. I dont know how much mud you need but if its alot that sika is pricey. Where are you at with this? Dont swing a rock hammer use an air chisel or a chipping gun.....dont kill yourself over a few bucks
 

cboeger1974

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
35
St. Louis missouri
Honestly if it were mine I would form it and pour it in one shot with the best mix the plant can send me. I'd look around for a spec mix. My supplier can fortify standard mixes, a 5000psi with some good additives is strong stuff, stronger than what you have there now. I'd spend my time epoxy pinning the heck out of it and making sure it's really nice. Bigger plants have engineering reps that know their concrete amd often have good suggestions and advice, they do it all day long. I dont know how much mud you need but if its alot that sika is pricey. Where are you at with this? Dont swing a rock hammer use an air chisel or a chipping gun.....dont kill yourself over a few bucks
How long do you think the repair could last?
What can I do to prevent water from seeping through the joint. I was told a water stop would cause a concrete failure. Is there a waterproofing that I can put on it to prevent water seeping?
I pretty much have all loose concrete removed - I will take some pics and send them today hopefully if the rain holds off. (used my masons hammer to tap on the concrete and anywhere there was a pitch change came out).
I was planning to do plumbing and lighting next (need to set 2 skimmer boxes maybe 3. 4 returns plus a vacuum line. And the new main drain which will be the most difficult plumbing portion). I will need to cut the rebar out in order to put the skimmers in and then bend bar around the back of the skimmers to tie it all together.
Next will be concrete work and I am guessing 2 pallets max of sika - I don't mind using the best product out there and spending up to $3-4k on that stuff if it makes this last longer. In the grand schemes of things that is nothing compared to the whole build with new equipment, landscaping, etc.
Honestly after concrete bond beam repairs and plumbing the rest is easy - coping and decking.
And yes, what started as a simple experiment with the mason's hammer ended up being all day - I just gave away my air hammer but I will be headed to the depot today to pick up another one as they are really inexpensive vs. my aching hands right now.
 
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vermaraj

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2015
97
Long Island City, NY
Bond beam area looks like bucket strikes from backhoe. Possible they hit shell with teeth then scraped up to remove coping. From the pictures looks like 2-3' level strike (teeth) then breakage up or down. Maybe they contemplated destroying shell and made few sample strikes.

Not that it matters to your solution, but it does indicate wall was solid before demo.
 

jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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That's alot better looking than I expected. I think you will be fine forming it and pouring it. I dont do many concrete pools in this area. What I would do is pin it like crazy and tie into the existing shell cage the best you can. You can also peg it if you have the room. You use a 3 to 4 inch coring bit and make a 6" deep hole then drill the inside with a 1" plus bit and whack it out. Keeps it from ever sliding in the future. Remember with proper prep you get a good bomd to old concrete. Many a bridge and structural concrete is patched. You could also dig the back up and make a lollipop form and epoxy pin to the back of existing shell amd tie it in there too for a thicker stronger top. Many ways to skin this cat. Remember when epoxy is pinned its stronger than the original rebar. Once tied the new stuff cant move forward without moving up as well. Never gonna happen with epoxy pins.....good luck getting them out
On my builds the pool is the easy part. Coping and decking are finish work that you cant hide, I think that's the hardest part....doesmt help when your a perfectionist
 
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cboeger1974

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
35
St. Louis missouri
Just wanted to give you an update: my project was stopped due to permitting issues for the last month basically. One of my neighbors felt it was necessary to let the whole world know that I was putting in a pool - I was actually rehabbing a pool which is not near as permitting intensive as installing new. I was finally able to get the required permits from the Village I live in for a remodel. They were also concerned with water runoff issues for the neighbor below me but those were temporarily resolved so I could at least move forward on the pool work. I spent Saturday and Sunday in 95 degree heat with 90% humidity chipping on concrete. Weather is supposed to cool off a little bit. I have approx. 1/2 the pool prepped for the new concrete on bond beam. I still have to work on plumbing and then get the electrician in to ground the beam and water before I actually pour concrete. Hoping to get all of that done in the next 30 days. Need to figure out a plasterer for the pool. Only 2 guys in my area really do pool plastering. One is $30k and is booked until 2021 and the other won't call me back - guessing he is too busy as well. I feel the $30k numbers is crazy so I may have to look at a 4 hour radius from my house to find someone reasonably priced and to complete it this fall.
 

jimmythegreek

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30k is a I dont wanna be bothered price.....Neighbors are always haters calling the town. I just finished a job that the next door guy called engineering almost everyday we worked to complain. He actually called OSHA too thank god i run a tight ship amd nobody was being bad when they showed up
 

cboeger1974

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
35
St. Louis missouri
30k is a I dont wanna be bothered price.....Neighbors are always haters calling the town. I just finished a job that the next door guy called engineering almost everyday we worked to complain. He actually called OSHA too thank god i run a tight ship amd nobody was being bad when they showed up
Agreed on the $30k price. They did my neighbors pool right across the street from me last year for $21k -guess they didn't think I would ask them. Unfortunately there are only two companies in St Louis that plaster pools and the other company will not return my calls. I am looking outside the area (within a 4 hour radius which includes Kansas City, Memphis, Nashville, and Louisville) to possibly do the plastering this fall. Slow and steady for now.
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
4,585
NY
Agreed on the $30k price. They did my neighbors pool right across the street from me last year for $21k -guess they didn't think I would ask them
One is $30k and is booked until 2021
Sounds more like the 42% covid tax to me. With demand through the roof and 6 months of pre scheduled work, they can name their price. If they get enough people to bite, that becomes the new price.
 
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cboeger1974

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
35
St. Louis missouri
Little update on work - most of the bond beam is formed and hopefully ready to pour this weekend. All plumbing and electric pipes have been "stubbed" out. Skimmer set. All lines have been pressure tested. Electrician installed his bonding wires last week. Pictures to follow.

Update on plastering - found someone to give me a decent price on the plaster work in april of 2021. By the time I get my bond beam repoured and the backfill / coping installed this year will be shot (almost done right now as low temps were 62 this am). Plus with the 100's of tree surrounding my pool the last thing I want to do is clean leaves daily while the plaster is curing. So we will be ready to swim in May of next year hopefully.
 

wireform

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Aug 15, 2017
1,582
Spring Valley, NY
My only concern is that now it's empty and while waiting till 2021 to complete the plaster can leave it vulnerable to popping out of the ground or am I overthinking it.
 

spd500

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2020
559
Houston, TX
My only concern is that now it's empty and while waiting till 2021 to complete the plaster can leave it vulnerable to popping out of the ground or am I overthinking it.
With the two foot hole in it I doubt it will pop up. They only put a couple four inch holes in our new pool to keep it from floating and we are in an area with a shallow water table.
 
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