More dirt on walls after upgrading to variable speed pump?

[mmdtx]

We upgraded to a variable speed pump and replaced our filter this winter. Since then, we've had a huge amount of dirt build up on the walls of our pool, spa, and troft. Filter was cleaned a couple of weeks ago, but that hasn't made a difference. Right now I'm brushing by hand and running our Dolphin in wall cleaning mode a couple times a week and that mostly keeps me in front of it. This issue is new this season - never an issue last year. Pump is set for 600 min, 3450 max, 2500 priming with :03 prime duration. Any ideas whether there's something in the new setup that's causing this?

Other speed settings are:

 

[Jimrahbe]

mm,

I really doubt this has anything to do with your new pump speeds. I suspect that you have algae, even if not "green"

One way to find out is to just run your pump at 3000 RPM for a couple of days and see if the problem goes away.

I suspect that you are using solid chlorine tablets, and that your CYA is well over 100, and your FC (chlorine) is under 2 ppm.

Show us the following chemical readings..

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Salt (If a saltwater pool)

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mmdtx]

mm,

I really doubt this has anything to do with your new pump speeds. I suspect that you have algae, even if not "green"

One way to find out is to just run your pump at 3000 RPM for a couple of days and see if the problem goes away.

I suspect that you are using solid chlorine tablets, and that your CYA is well over 100, and your FC (chlorine) is under 2 ppm.

Show us the following chemical readings..

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Salt (If a saltwater pool)

Thanks,

Jim R.

I thought similarly and treated for brown algae at the same time we cleaned the filter, but no luck. I'd have thought that if it were brown algae, we'd have seen improvement and then regrwoth, but it was pretty much static.

From the test strips I have handy, I'm getting:
FC : ~5
pH: ~7.7
TA: ~80
TH: ~200
CYA: ~125

Upped the pump to 3000 to see what that does as well.

 

[HermanTX]

Are you familiar with the CYA/FC relationship? This is one of the building blocks of TFP to maintain proper balance in your pool. As you CYA increases, you need higher FC to be active to kill algae. Refer to the FC/CYA Levels. As Jim pointed out, you probably have algae and nothing to do with your pump speed.

Also, it is best to get a proper test kit - Test Kits Compared. Test strips provide you a range but does not provide accurate levels to ensure your pool chemistry is balanced.

 

[mmdtx]

Are you familiar with the CYA/FC relationship? This is one of the building blocks of TFP to maintain proper balance in your pool. As you CYA increases, you need higher FC to be active to kill algae. Refer to the FC/CYA Levels. As Jim pointed out, you probably have algae and nothing to do with your pump speed.

Also, it is best to get a proper test kit - Test Kits Compared. Test strips provide you a range but does not provide accurate levels to ensure your pool chemistry is balanced.

Thanks... this is our second season with a pool so I'm trying to learn the chemical relationships while still using a service. I did find an (old) test kit in the bin 'o chemicals from the prior owner and tried it out, but it does not have a CYA test. The other numbers from the strip were pretty close from the test kit, though.

If I'm understanding this relationship correctly now it sounds likely that the service is letting the CYA level stay high to slow the degradation of chlorine (FC at 5 5 days after they last did chemicals) but that CYA is so high that it doesn't actually matter because you'd need a higher FC to get the same effect?

 

[HermanTX]

If I'm understanding this relationship correctly now it sounds likely that the service is letting the CYA level stay high to slow the degradation of chlorine (FC at 5 5 days after they last did chemicals) but that CYA is so high that it doesn't actually matter because you'd need a higher FC to get the same effect?

Correct - you get the sanitation level acceptable you need to match the FC to the CYA level based on the chart.
The only way to reduce CYA is to drain water. So for your level of 125, if you drain half your pool and refill with tap water and your CYA should be cut in half to the 60-70 range. But with it being so hot right now in Texas, you need to be careful not to expose your plaster to extreme sun - so you may want to do your partial drain in late afternoon, then refill over night.

 

[Oly]

Your pool service is using trichlor pucks because they only visit once a week. Check these short vids out.....

 

[Jimrahbe]

mm,

Keep in mind that your CYA may be much higher than 125..

Jim R.

 

[mmdtx]

Your pool service is using trichlor pucks because they only visit once a week. Check these short vids out.....

Hmmm... we're using Bioguard Silkguard complete tabs in an auto chlorinator. We switched to these at the end of last season thinking that it would be a good thing because we have excessively hard water. Also switched from a couple of tabs in a float to using the autochlorinator at the same time. (kids started to think the float was a toy ) Looking at the ingredients, they're Trichloro-s-triazinetrione: 91.57%, Copper Sulfate pentahydrate (metallic copper equivalent 0.25%): 0.99% Other Ingredients: 7.44%, Available Chlorine: 84.%. Perhaps these tabs might be the source of the high CYA and thus ineffective chlorine?

What should we be using to keep things balanced?

When we treated for algae earlier this season, we used a combo of ton of Cal hypo shock and muriatic acid, if that makes a difference.

 

[Oly]

Yes, the trichlor in this product is constantly raising your CYA and lowering your pH.
The copper is also accumulating in your pool water which can over time stain pool surfaces and turn hair green. Both high CYA and copper will eventually require draining your pool and refilling.
The ton of CalHypo you added raised your calcium hardness levels which may be a problem, depending on your current water chemistry levels and source water levels.

TFP recommends frequent self water testing at home with a proper test kit Test Kits Compared, and knowing the estimated effects of adding any product to your pool before you add. The best long term source of FC for your pool is liquid chlorine, no additives or chlorine gas from a salt system chlorine generator. All solid chlorine products contain other materials you should be aware of and anticipate accumulation over time.

 

[mmdtx]

mm,

Keep in mind that your CYA may be much higher than 125..

Jim R.

The test strips have colors on the key for 100-150-300 and my color is between 100-150 so fortunately not ludicrously high.... only crazy high.

 

[mmdtx]

Yes, the trichlor in this product is constantly raising your CYA and lowering your pH.
The copper also is also accumulating in your pool water which can over time stain pool surfaces and turn hair green. Both high CYA and copper will eventually require draining your pool and refilling.
The ton of CalHypo you added raised your calcium hardness levels which may be a problem, depending on your current water chemistry levels and source water levels.

TFP recommends frequent self water testing at home with a proper test kit Test Kits Compared, and knowing the estimated effects of adding any product to your pool before you add. The best long term source of FC for your pool is liquid chlorine, no additives or chlorine gas from a salt system chlorine generator. All solid chlorine products contain other materials you should be aware of and anticipate accumulation over time.

Welp, that explains my toddler's newly minted green hair this season. Though, wouldn't high copper act as an algaecide in this case?

Already have a test kit on my list, but trying to err on the side of having a plan before starting down the drain/refill path. Sounds like the conventional wisdom is to ditch the tabs and the autochlor, ditch the cal hypo shock, and manage with liquid cholorine? Perhaps on a twice a week test schedule?

I hate to ditch the tabs since they're not cheap and the bucket is fairly new... ugh! Lots of learning going on this weekend.

 

[proavia]

Test strips are highly unreliable.
We will not provide guidance based on test strips or pool store test results.

You cannot successfully mix TFP methods with those of the pool store or any other methods.

Get yourself one of the recommended test kits
Test Kits Compared

Have a look thru:

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Oly]

Welp, that explains my toddler's newly minted green hair this season. Though, wouldn't high copper act as an algaecide in this case?

Already have a test kit on my list, but trying to err on the side of having a plan before starting down the drain/refill path. Sounds like the conventional wisdom is to ditch the tabs and the autochlor, ditch the cal hypo shock, and manage with liquid cholorine? Perhaps on a twice a week test schedule?

I hate to ditch the tabs since they're not cheap and the bucket is fairly new... ugh! Lots of learning going on this weekend.

Properly sanitized pools don't need added algicides or use products that contain copper.
A proper test comes before establishing a sound plan.
Be aware new TFP converts may need to test FC daily even several times a day as they gain experience with their unique system. Over time testing can slow but is the foundation of a safe nd trouble free pool. Your tabs have not lost their value in fact may increase as summer progresses and shortages get worse. You can use them but not as a primary sanitation product without your "plan" including a pool drain as needed.
Lots to learn yes, but you have found the very best place to get this done. TFP is a gold mine for pool owners.

 

[Jimrahbe]

mm,

You can still use the tablets if you want, you just have to drain some water when the CYA gets too high.

I have a saltwater pool. I never have to buy tablets or chlorine. The salt system just makes all the chlorine my pool needs.

I also have two saltwater pools at rent houses. I'd just as soon not have a pool at all if they could not be saltwater pools.

This site is all about the pool owner taking care of their own pool.. So our advice is geared toward that, rather than having a pool service.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mmdtx]

Jim and Oly - Super helpful stuff from folks here. My goal is to get to a point where I've got a solid base of knowledge on the various systems and chemistries to get rid of the service, save some $, and have a better overall pool. Last season was learning/repairing/replacing the equipment and plumbing, this year is chemistry. Saved a big amount of cash doing simple stuff like O-rings and actuators myself, hoping to replicate that in this year's learnings.

Tremendously helpful figuring out where the chemistry is and how/why it got there and building a plan for what to do/order next so I don't start down a road and wind up doing something counter productive. (you know, like trying water softening tabs and creating a CYA problem...)

Also really appreciate y'alls patience as I'm figuring out a problem that looks like it might be totally different than what I suspected at first.

 

[HermanTX]

Already have a test kit on my list, but trying to err on the side of having a plan before starting down the drain/refill path. Sounds like the conventional wisdom is to ditch the tabs and the autochlor, ditch the cal hypo shock, and manage with liquid cholorine? Perhaps on a twice a week test schedule?

I hate to ditch the tabs since they're not cheap and the bucket is fairly new... ugh! Lots of learning going on this weekend.

The easiest first step may be to switch to liquid chlorine. In time, and as budgets allow, you can upgrade to a SWCG (that is anywhere from a $1500 to $3000 investment depending on model and how much changes to your pipework). Note - this is for name brank equipment, there is 3rd party equipment that may be less expensive for a SWCG.

You can add liquid chlorine (LC) by batching it (such as a gallon every x number of days) but I have found it best to add some LC everyday and once you get up to speed on pool chemistry you will learn how your pool consumes chlorine. Right now since it is so hot plus bather load every day, I am adding 64 oz to my pool daily - 32 oz in the morning and another 32 ozs in the afternoon. I test every second day to confirm FC levels along with pH, etc. My TA, CH and CYA remain fairly stable. Once you get your new test kit and start the process it will become much clearer on the steps you need to properly manage your pool.

Keep your tabs and your floater. If you go away on vacation for a week then you can batch your LC before you depart and then fill up the floater with tabs. I have found that effective and it does not adversely increase CYA as it is only for a week. Also tabs can stay in storage a long time with little to no affect to their performance.

I would also strongly recommend the PoolMath app. It helps you keep track of all your test data and provides you guidance on how much of whatever chemical (LC or Acid for example) you need to add to reach your target values. You need to purchase the premium version to track all your info. I think it is around $9 annually - well worth it for the value you get from it.

Good Luck and