Modifying existing Pool Equipment

[scunnin934]

Hello new to the group. We have had our pool constructed over 3 years ago and learning some of the short cuts our PB did and now learning about it. First our pool was constructed with PVC Flex pipe. All valves and equipment hacked in place and did not know any better and was just happy after saving for many years. I was wanted to upgrade some of the pool piping and clean up valves and marking what line is for what and place the equipment on a concrete pad as we wanted from the start and talked us into using the plastic pads. The first picture are the valves for our Jet Deck and Pool Bubblers and Tanning Ledge fill valve. Well first year PB cut the line winterizing and said he did that as he did not like the lines and would replace next year (still waiting for next year). So was fixed with pool putty and flex seal (currently drips in use). One Pool Bubbler also needs to be fixed as it popped open when he was setting it in concrete so we found that going into year two along with a cracked pipe in the return line. He did fix that line with pool epoxy and still think it leaks and want to fix long term.

So we were referred to a different PB/Landscaper from our Pool service person to help fix some of our issues. We got some quotes from them to fix the pool lines to bring closer to the equipment add Jandy valves / VS Pentair Pump / fix the cracked return line. They are wanting to add 3" pipe from the PVC Flex from the concrete patio and run about 23 feet to the equipment. Current quote is $15,097 does this sound right or getting double charged for making a bad decision for PB we choose? We had some additional quotes about pool automation and some additional wiring Jandy Aqua Link $8,174. As you can see we do not have a pool sub panel that I am considering to have installed, but need to have the main panel in the basement upgraded which they quoted me $4,815.

After seeing these numbers I am considering plumbing the items myself, but do not want to make any costly mistakes as my wife would make my life miserable. So any advice on redoing the plumbing for myself?

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Sorry to hear about your troubles. Very frustrating I'm sure. For what it's worth, the view of the pool in that last pic is gorgeous. As for the quotes, yeah, I would be cautious as well. Unless I'm missing something in the pics, I don't see a need for 3" plumbing. 2" would seem adequate, but we'll see. I would recommend updating your signature to show all the details of your pool and equipment pad as it currently stands. See my sig as an example. Then perhaps list all the new proposed equipment by make/model if possible so we can compare. Lots of folks here to help.

 

[scunnin934]

Welcome to TFP! Sorry to hear about your troubles. Very frustrating I'm sure. For what it's worth, the view of the pool in that last pic is gorgeous. As for the quotes, yeah, I would be cautious as well. Unless I'm missing something in the pics, I don't see a need for 3" plumbing. 2" would seem adequate, but we'll see. I would recommend updating your signature to show all the details of your pool and equipment pad as it currently stands. See my sig as an example. Then perhaps list all the new proposed equipment by make/model if possible so we can compare. Lots of folks here to help.

Thanks for the update! The thought of going 3" piping was to possible increase water flow for the Jet Deck and Tanning Ledge Bubblers. I kind of figured out the pipe layout myself of needing to run 5 feet of piping from the patio and 90 degree elbow and then run 20 foot PVC pipe 2" or 3" to the pool equipment. Were never really informed about what each valve is for. Only valves we know to use are the tanning ledge and the jet decks and we have to adjust the valves at one location and then go back to the pool equipment to adjust flow restriction and cannot really run both at the same time as there is not enough flow pressure. Biggest attempt is to understand everything and make it better to perform. Our Pool service person always say you have a beautiful pool but have a lot of hidden issues people would not see or understand. I just want to get my pool equipment and pool pipes to look like the diagram below to incorporate the Jet Deck, Tanning Ledge Bubbler, Tanning Ledge Pipe Flow valve, and all other items. Possible add in the pipe a T-pipe that is accessed to winterize the lines each year. Also thought of adding a spa blower to the pool bubbler to make them high flowing. Right now they do not look that exciting when used. PLEASE HELP

 

[Texas Splash]

Your drawing should help quite a bit. I'm going to tag @mas985 for some expert hydraulic advice on this one.

 

[scunnin934]

Your drawing should help quite a bit. I'm going to tag @mas985 for some expert hydraulic advice on this one.

Thanks! I am sure I will been adding a few new question to other groups to get some advise on.

 

[mas985]

The 3" pipe is not likely to help much with the deck jets and bubblers given the water is going through a heater.

How much flow does the jets and bubblers require?

What is the model# of the pump?

The diagram you posted is a generic one from Jandy. Is that exactly how your plumbing looks?

Post a picture of your actual equipment pad.

 

[scunnin934]

We currently are running all of our pool equipment via cords plugged into the 4 gang GFCI outlet. Considering adding a Pool Panel instead and have equipment wired to breakers, currently we need more outlets for other items. Not looking into automation right now but would consider something that can allow me to grow if I did decide down the road. Just had a quote for a Jandy Aqua Link system and all the items blew me away about the price. With the Pool Panel I would want to run the possible pool house down the line to these breakers. FYI Pool house is a 24x24 Structure. No Kitchen, No bathroom. 13x23 living space and 8x23 storage. Running Lights TV and AV equipment, ceiling fan, beverage fridge.

If we add a panel we will have to have our main panel updated to higher AMP's, which we got a quote of $4,874 to upgrade the panel. Then this was the quote for the pool panel $3,219 to get the equipment wire and lighting from pool, bubblers, etc.

Thanks for your time!

 

[scunnin934]

Looking to find some solution to solve some of my problems with our Tanning Ledge and Pool Bubblers.
Repair/Replace CMP Pool Bubbler – at time of install the bubbler came loose and cannot hold water in tanning ledge (CMP LED Pool Bubbler Right)

• Cut out of concrete and replace Pool Bubbler
• Concrete, tile, grout

Find solution to actively work tanning ledge without water going behind the liner. Causes liner to pull and bubble if ran during the day with significant water loss. (Idea listed below)

• Possible waterspout for curved outpour into pool (Lombardi 36” curved SPA/Fountain Spillway Copper) – Majestic Waterspout (would need custom work which they offer) Lombardi 36" Curved Spa/Fountain Spillway - Copper
• Other Possible natural stone to use
• Rebuild wall going into the pool with additional strength from cinder block and re tile.
• Use remaining pool coping to assist in closing in area with spillway and additional lip to prevent water channeling behind the liner.

The white pipes pictured as the last photo this is how we control the tanning ledge Left vale goes for the two bubblers right valve is the fill form the pool. Then there is another valve used to regulate the pressure. I do not know what flow rate at this time, but we do not get enough push to make it look fierce. Looking to consider adding a pump or blower that would only be used when in use . I have another set of questions about pool plumbing and re-piping with valve improvement. Let me know if there is anything else missing to help troubleshooting. Looking back we should have cut the pool wall and ran the vinyl liner into this area, but this this is in the deep end did not know if we would have liner pull from jumping in and out. Pool is only 3 years old

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Not much to say other than you should definitely get that equipment routed to a sub-panel. It is not code to run pool equipment off of a single receptacle like that and if there was ever an issue of liability I'm sure your insurance company would be not be pleased looking at those pictures. Pool pumps can draw a lot of electrical current when they start up and standard outlets are generally not considered acceptable for handling that. As well, not sure what type of pool lighting you have but pool light wiring is typically run from the niche in the pool to an above ground junction box where wiring connections are made well above the surface of the pool water (to avoid pool water flooding the connection). Then the wiring from the J-box is run (again, through conduit) to a panel or switch. I only see a low-voltage landscape lighting transformer by your plug ... is that running the pool lights? Are wires direct buried to the pool light J-box? Whatever you use to power the lighting, all of the connections between the transformer and a sub panel or the transformer into the ground should be run inside conduit to avoid exposure (and it just looks cleaner). Direct burial from the transformer is fine for low voltage but, wherever it hooks up to the pool lighting, that needs to be done with a junction box that is at least 5ft away from the water's edge AND raised above the water level by about 18" (which I think is code, but it could be slightly higher or lower).

Looks like there's LOTS of clean up work needed at that equipment pad to get it all up to code. I would focus on that rather than an automation system "you might consider getting in the future". You might also consider positioning the new pool sub panel at a location that would make it easy to relocate to the future pool house. It's perfectly acceptable to drive a couple of wood decking posts into the ground and add the sub panel there rather than the side of the house. Choice is yours but just make it easy to move.

 

[scunnin934]

Thanks for the input, Matt! This is a main spring project I am wanting to tackle and get resolved and have a clean look. I join this group recently and wanted to learn how to resolve this issue instead of being a YouTube surfer. The Pool lighting current configuration is with a PAL Commander and then plugged into the 4 gang GFCI outlets when we use it. We also have two pool bubbler that I have the transformer, but our PB cut the line and need to rewire those. I have an electrician that has done a lot of work for us but need to have a plan with him since he has not done a lot of Pool electrical. I can tell you stories about our pool that will make you cringe about what was the PB thinking. Please provide me with the cold hard facts of what is wrong and the potential issues it will cause down the line. Do you remember and previous threads that might have had the same issues?

 

[ajw22]

actively work tanning ledge

What does “actively work tanning ledge” mean?

Does the tanning ledge water spillover the wall into the pool when you are running it?

How is water getting behind the liner?

 

[ajw22]

Post a list of your electrical equipment with model numbers, the voltage it is running at, and how it is wired now.

Is everything running on 120 volts?

Do you want to have 240 volts for future equipment?

 

[scunnin934]

Currently the tanning ledge is a liability when we use it. First right bubbler leaks and creates pockets of water in the yard when in use and the pool water level then drops below simmer baskets. Second when the water is spilling over from the tile water gets behind the liner and can feel the pockets around that area and one party it created a huge bubble in the shallow end, which I had to walk on to work out into the walls.

One thought was to get a centralized spill over spot and then add remaining pool coping and calk the gaps between the coping. I think we would have to redo the walk to support the coping and additional kids jumping off from that area and to make sure spill over does not get tugged out of place from people trying to pull themselves up from.

Looking for some creative advice or other people that have delt with similar problems,

 

[ajw22]

Doing a spillover from the tanning ledge over the liner track is a major design flaw.

Show us pics of the spillover from the pool side showing what type of liner track was used and how the liner is hung in that area.

I think you need to put some fiberglass or metal scupper on the top of the spillover to create a waterfall that routes the spilled over water away from the wall.

The bubbler you either need to dig up and repair properly or abandon it.

Lets see what @jimmythegreek thinks about your situation.

 

[pjt]

If you're replumbing your equipment, I'd recommend adding a bypass to your heater:

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[scunnin934]

If you're replumbing your equipment, I'd recommend adding a bypass to your heater:

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for the advice! I will add to the list of corrected pool plumbing I need