Mid-Construction DIY - STUCK! - PLEASE HELP!!!

[mas985]

Are you sure you hooked up the air line to the air port and the water line to the water port of the venturi? If you swap those, water will come out of the air line.

 

[shlomikalfa]

Mid-Construction DIY - STUCK! - PLEASE HELP!!!

That would work! @mas985 Only thing though is that by what I understand the MDs are also useful as a backup for the skimmer if water level goes bellow skimmer they get into play saving my pump's life... So... Uffff I hate mistakes!

www.troublefreepool.com

Are these venturi?

Mid-Construction DIY - STUCK! - PLEASE HELP!!!

That would work! @mas985 Only thing though is that by what I understand the MDs are also useful as a backup for the skimmer if water level goes bellow skimmer they get into play saving my pump's life... So... Uffff I hate mistakes!

www.troublefreepool.com

Any other reason? Cause I think I didn't got this wrong...
Maybe something with the nozzles? Or perhapse pump isnt enough? Or maybe too strong heck...

Bahh stuck that last bit and me herniated disc is back ON full rage! Grrr!

 

[mas985]

I can't really tell from the pictures which is the water line and which is the air line. They should have been marked.

The only other possibility is that there is debris in the lines. Remove all the nozzles from the venturi tees and flush lines.

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985
Well... Beats me like crazy!
The air and water pipes are in place!
The air lines are above water level... Water is coming out the air pipes very freely - so how could it be plugged?! And yet... No air bubbles!
Why why why???

 

[mas985]

So exactly how do you know that the air and water lines are "in place"? More specifically, how did you confirm that the venturi tees were installed properly before concrete? The air and water lines are not interchangeable on those tees.

Did you try flushing the venturis without the nozzles installed?

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985
Well... I've looked at the pre concrete pictures I've sent you and looked at the manual of the jets and it seems like water is water and air is air, water on bottom!
I've tried removing the nozzles from 1 jet and ran the pump... Just water out the air pipe... Could it be that the air pipe should be higher above water level? But how come it doesnt suck in the water from the air pipe?

What do you mean by flushing the pipe? With what? Air compressor? Water?

 

[mas985]

@mas985
Well... I've looked at the pre concrete pictures I've sent you and looked at the manual of the jets and it seems like water is water and air is air, water on bottom!

That isn't really telling me anything. Exactly what are you looking at in the picture where you can tell which is which. Having water on the bottom is NOT sufficient. Only one of the two ports is for water and the other for air. You cannot swap these even if you keep water on the bottom. Do you have a link to the manual and/or pictures of the manual?

I've tried removing the nozzles from 1 jet and ran the pump... Just water out the air pipe... Could it be that the air pipe should be higher above water level? But how come it doesnt suck in the water from the air pipe?

You can't flush the plumbing with only one nozzle removed. ALL must be removed at the same time.

 

[mas985]

Found these pictures but in your pictures, I cannot tell which is which. The water line is the plug with the hole. Was that always down?

 

[mas985]

The bottom venturi in this picture looks like it is missing it's air plug. Were all the water and air plugs installed?

The other side of the water/air lines for that top venturi where eventually capped correct?

 

[shlomikalfa]

That picture is just an assembly to ask you if it'll work as a construct...
I'm sure all holes were sealed as I've multiple checked... Water is bottom and air is top and the plug that says TOP was on top... So I dont think thats the issue ...

Could it be something with the nozzles? Maybe a certain way to fit them? They have this plastic clips... Maybe it should be removed?
The venturi should work even without the nozzles inserted? Cause it doesnt...

I'll get back home and post an image of the nozzles and perhapse the inside of the jet body if I'll manage...

 

[mas985]

Could it be something with the nozzles? Maybe a certain way to fit them? They have this plastic clips... Maybe it should be removed?
The venturi should work even without the nozzles inserted? Cause it doesnt...

No, the venturi will not work without the nozzles. Removing the nozzles was just to help clear the lines.

Can you put a pressure gauge on the pump return side drain plug and a suction gauge on the suction side drain plug? We can then determine the flow rate through the pump as well as determine if there are any suction side or return side blockage.

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985 I've tried to take a picture of my jet bodies with my phone... apparently it's not water-proof and now I've lost my phone to these jets ... UHHHHH!!!! darn it!

I've connected a street blower to the air line of 2 of the jets and it seems like it works if I start the blower before I start the jets... but if I start the jets and then the blower the water just climbs up the hose to the blower... no air bubbles what so ever... But that trail was without the nozzles installed...

Will send images as soon as I'll manage to get something fixed with my phone...

Here is the nozzle:


Well since you can't upload videos in here I've uploaded to my Drive... here are links:
1. Nozzle:

Nozzle.mp4

drive.google.com

2. Blower is started before the jets:

Blower before jets.mp4

drive.google.com

3. Blower is started after jets:

Blower after jets.mp4

drive.google.com

As you can see if I start the blower after the jets nothing works... jets are stronger... water just pushes the air and climbs back...
However, these "tests" are without the nozzles...

Maybe nozzles were not placed correctly?

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985 Very strange! I've connected a hose to the air line (the blue one you can see in the video) and I can blow air through it when the jets are off and it goes freely ... with my mouth!
but the water is not sucking anything.... When I've removed the nozzles, the air hole is closer to the exit of the jet body then the water hole... I can block it with my finger when the jet is on and the water keeps flowing...
so I think the air is UP and the water is down as should be as per jets scheme and paper you've posted above... SO... the assembly is OK... what am I missing?!

 

[mas985]

As you can see if I start the blower after the jets nothing works... jets are stronger... water just pushes the air and climbs back...
However, these "tests" are without the nozzles...

As I posted before, the venturis do not work without the nozzles. The nozzles create the suction to draw in the air. Without the nozzles, the water will travel up the air tubes.

Maybe nozzles were not placed correctly?

That is definitely a possibility. They may not be producing enough suction via the venturi action. This is why I suggested taking some measurements on the pump, suction & pressure WITH nozzles, so that we can determine the actual flow rate going to all the jets. If the flow rate is ok, then it must be something with the nozzles.

Do you have all the control valves fully open at this point, both air an water?

What is the smallest diameter of the nozzle?

Also, those are adjustable jets. If you screw them all the way down, I think it shuts down the water. Make sure they are only 1 turn in.

Are you using the blue backwash line for air? That will collapse without a blower.

 

[shlomikalfa]

All valves are open and the nozzles are fully opened.
I've used the blue backwash line for testing with the blower... the air line is not connected to anything and it's a 1-1/2" pipe...
I don't know how to check the smallest diameter, it's not written anywhere...
The pump is not connected to anything but the jets so it's sucking and pushing right-away... it's all glued so I have to cut it If I want to add pressure gauges...

It seems like it's pushing a lot of water though... tried playing with the ball valves for different pressures and no change in air suction...

 

[mas985]

I don't know how to check the smallest diameter, it's not written anywhere...

With the nozzle removed, just measure it.

The pump is not connected to anything but the jets so it's sucking and pushing right-away... it's all glued so I have to cut it If I want to add pressure gauges...

You shouldn't need to cut anything. Most pumps have 1/4" drain plugs that gauges can fit directly into. Can you post a link to the jet pump you used?

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985
The nozzles seems like the narrowest part is between 9-10mm.

As for the pump - I've got the S2 200:

SILEN | The best swimming pool pump

www.espa.com

Pleaseeeee Help! I want some bubbles with my jets !

 

[mas985]

First, that pump does have drain plugs that you can put a gauge on for measurement.

Second, I think we may have discussed this before but that pump may not be big enough to run all those jets. 10mm jets would require 15 GPM each or a total of 120 GPM. At that flow rate, the head loss would be at least 45' of head and that pump will only produce about 97 GPM and that is without the head loss of the other pipe and fittings. So it is a bit short which could be the problem but we won't know unless you can do some pressure/vacuum measurements on the pump.

Also, can you post your latest schematic? Are each group of jets completely isolated from each other via valves both air and water?

 

[shlomikalfa]

@mas985 Well... I can't run a bigger pump on my electricity...
I'll check how can I add a pressure gauge on that pump... anything else I should try without cutting my pipes? their pretty tight so cutting is a big issue...
each couple of jets are separated by a valve for water and their air pipe is just out in the open... as per images at:

Mid-Construction DIY - STUCK! - PLEASE HELP!!!

That would work! @mas985 Only thing though is that by what I understand the MDs are also useful as a backup for the skimmer if water level goes bellow skimmer they get into play saving my pump's life... So... Uffff I hate mistakes!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mas985]

Plumbing drawing?