Mastertemp and Intelliflo VS Pump Wiring at Breaker

[Spadak]

Per the Mastertemp Installation instruction:

”The filter pump should run continuously when the heater is on, and for at least 5 minutes after the heater turns off. Any switches in the pump circuit (including circuit breakers) that can disconnect the pump must also disconnect the heater.”

I interpret this as saying I should have both my Mastertemp 400 and my intelliflo VS pump wired directly to the same two pole 20 amp (Actually it is currenlty a 15 amp) breaker

Is this the correct interpretation?

They will be controlled with an Easytouch automation system.

 

[ajw22]

Yup, that is what the latest MasterTemp Installation Manual says and means.

 

[4xWTub]

I interpret this as saying I should have both my Mastertemp 400 and my intelliflo VS pump wired directly to the same two pole 20 amp breaker

May I suggest that you should consider using a larger breaker (with suitable wire) than 20 amps?

According to this link the Intelliflo VS pump draws 16 amps at full load:

IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pool Pump

The IntelliFlo VSF pump is the first of its kind to respond to changes in your pool’s environment in order to maintain a preprogrammed flow rate. There’s no more guesswork—just set the desired flow rate and the pump will adjust as needed. It’s like cruise control for your pump. And, the...

www.pentair.com

and the Mastertemp manual says:

Line voltage field wiring should be 14 gauge, with a circuit capacity of 15 Amps. Note: The heater operating AMP draw is
about 5 AMPS at 120 VAC and 2.5 AMPS at 240 VAC. A 15 AMP circuit capacity is required for the inrush
current at startup.

MasterTemp® High Performance Pool and Spa Heaters

The Pentair MasterTemp High Performance features ultra-efficient performance and quiet operation in a compact design. Shop products here.

www.pentair.com

While 16 amps + 2.5 amps is less than 20 amps, there is the inrush current to consider. A 30 amp circuit would be a better choice, in my opinion.

 

[ajw22]

While 16 amps + 2.5 amps is less than 20 amps, there is the inrush current to consider. A 30 amp circuit would be a better choice, in my opinion.

NEC says no circuit shall be loaded more than 80% of rating. That means a 20 amp breaker should not have more than 16 amps load.

A 30 amp GFCI beaker is more expensive and Pentair sells special 20 amp GFCI breakers for VS pumps, not 30 amp ones.

The statement about having the pump and heater on the same CB was recently added to the manual. I don’t think Pentair thought through all the electrical implications of it. The heater has been wired to a separate CB for the last 20 years.

I would ignore that statement and wire it the old way with separate CBs.

 

[4xWTub]

I would ignore that statement and wire it the old way with separate CBs.

Then I suggest adding a contactor (relay) into the heater circuit so that if the pump circuit has a tripped breaker or other issue that shuts the pump off, then the power for the contactor coil would be cut and the contactor would drop out and shut off the heater.

In other words, the contactor coil should be wired in parallel with the pump.

 

[ajw22]

Then I suggest adding a contactor (relay) into the heater circuit so that if the pump circuit has a tripped breaker or other issue that shuts the pump off, then the power for the contactor coil would be cut and the contactor would drop out and shut off the heater.

In other words, the contactor coil should be wired in parallel with the pump.

Excellent suggestion!

 

[Spadak]

Then I suggest adding a contactor (relay) into the heater circuit so that if the pump circuit has a tripped breaker or other issue that shuts the pump off, then the power for the contactor coil would be cut and the contactor would drop out and shut off the heater.

In other words, the contactor coil should be wired in parallel with the pump.

First, thank you everyone for offering your help. Second, I want to apologize, the breaker is actually a Dual Pole 15 Amp breaker. Lastly, I wanted to show a picture of the current setup. You can see that the way they wired the original equipment (Compool LX_3800 automation center, 2 single speed motors, MasterTemp 400, Breeze SWG, Jet Booster Pump, Spa Light and 2 Pool lights) was setup such that the first breaker (15 Amps) goes from the Transformer power and has the Mastertemp connected to it, it is then jumped to the first relay (filter) which originally had both the Breeze SWG and the Pool Filter Pump (2HP) connected to it. I added a new 15 amp breaker (Which sounds like it should have been a 20 amp breaker) Which I connected the intelliflo VS Pump to directly. I also took the Waterfall pump off of the relay which is now connected directly to it's 15 amp breaker (which I'm assuming really should be 20 AMPs.

Based on everything you are all saying are you saying to wire the Heater pump to the load side of the filter relay? and have that relay fed via the 15 amp breaker. That is to say, simply move the the MasterTemp 400 wires from the System power connector to the load side of the Filter Relay?

(Please note this system was installed around 15 years ago by the prior home owner, and my single speed pump filter pump died so I decided to make som major upgrades)

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

We are just making this a much bigger deal that it needs to be...

The whole idea of having the heater and the pump on the same breaker is so that you can't just shut the pump off and have the heater still running.

This is something that the EasyTouch does all by itself.

In the big picture it matters not if the heater and pump are on the same breaker and the heater does not have to be connected to the pump filter relay.

You can do that if you want, but there is really no real reason to do it if you don't.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

You have to decide if you are going to wire to current NEC and manufactures specifcations or to the requirements that your panel is grandfathered into at the time it was installed.

Current NEC requires GFCI for pool pumps, gas heaters, and lights. Your light has GFCI through the outlet GGFCI. You need GFCI breakers for the pumps and heater to meet current code.

If you increase the size of the breaker you must also confirm you have the minimum wire size. 15 amps can use 14 gauge wire. 20 amps requires 12 gauge at a minimum.

Harmonics from the variable frequency drive can cause false GFCI trips. Pentair PA220GF is a 20A 240V GFCI breaker that GFCI trips at 6ma. The PA220GF is supposed to be less sensitive to false GCFI trips from VS pumps.

The PA220GF is a relabeled Siemens CB (QF220AP). Siemens added additional shielding to help resist false trips. Some say Pentair may have additional quality control and selects breakers less susceptible to false GFCI trips.

You can use a 15 amp CB with the Superflo VS as it is a less powerful pump and pulls I think 8 amps at 240 volts. The Intelliflo does need a 20 amp CB.

I would leave your heater where it is. The current manual does not apply to your heater. The manufactures installation manual at the time the heater was installed applies. Your heater is connected the way 100% of all MasterTemps are currently installed.

Post a pic of the motor data plate on your Superflo VS motor.

 

[Spadak]

You have to decide if you are going to wire to current NEC and manufactures specifcations or to the requirements that your panel is grandfathered into at the time it was installed.

Current NEC requires GFCI for pool pumps, gas heaters, and lights. Your light has GFCI through the outlet GGFCI. You need GFCI breakers for the pumps and heater to meet current code.

If you increase the size of the breaker you must also confirm you have the minimum wire size. 15 amps can use 14 gauge wire. 20 amps requires 12 gauge at a minimum.

Harmonics from the variable frequency drive can cause false GFCI trips. Pentair PA220GF is a 20A 240V GFCI breaker that GFCI trips at 6ma. The PA220GF is supposed to be less sensitive to false GCFI trips from VS pumps.

The PA220GF is a relabeled Siemens CB (QF220AP). Siemens added additional shielding to help resist false trips. Some say Pentair may have additional quality control and selects breakers less susceptible to false GFCI trips.

You can use a 15 amp CB with the Superflo VS as it is a less powerful pump and pulls I think 8 amps at 240 volts. The Intelliflo does need a 20 amp CB.

I would leave your heater where it is. The current manual does not apply to your heater. The manufactures installation manual at the time the heater was installed applies. Your heater is connected the way 100% of all MasterTemps are currently installed.

Post a pic of the motor data plate on your Superflo VS motor.

Sure thing, see attached a picture of the Superflo.

I was curious about the whole GFCI breaker issue. My system has been running fine for 15+ years without it, and I wasn't sure if I really needed to spend $150+ on two new GFCI breakers or just spend the $15 on a new 20A standard breaker.

 

[ajw22]

Your Superflo VS runs 12 amps at 240 volts. That is right at the edge of the 80% limit for a 15 amp CB. It is ok but a 20 amp breaker may give you less problems in the long run.

GFCI is for your safety. It adds a layer of protection to trip when a device is beginning to leak current before it can become dangerous. Without GFCI the first time you may find out a device is leaking current into or around the pool is when someone is shocked.

You need to decide what safety is worth to you.

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Spadak]

Sure thing, see attached a picture of the Superflo.

I was curious about the whole GFCI breaker issue. My system has been running fine for 15+ years without it, and I wasn't sure if I really needed to spend $150+ on two new GFCI breakers or just spend the $15 on a new 20A standard breaker.

Thank you Allen, that all makes sense. I have sons and there safety is definitely important. Is the GFCI only important on the two pumps, or would I need to add one to replace the system breaker (System, Heater, and SWG) and another for the Jet Booster pump, or is that overkill?

 

[ajw22]

You need four GFCI breakers and then you meet current NEC code.

There is no overkill in safety.

 

[Spadak]

You need four GFCI breakers and then you meet current NEC code.

There is no overkill in safety.

Got is, so just to clarify, you would suggest:

PA215FG (Optional QF215AP since it is not connected to a pump and not suseptible to trips?) for the System Power, MasterTemp 400, and Breeze 540 SWG
PA220GF for the Intellflo VS (QF220AP not reccommended as it is prone to trips)
PA220GF for the Superflo VS (QF220AP not reccommended as it is prone to trips)
QF115AP for the Jet Pump

Lastly, the whole system is currently wired using 14 gauge (minus the MasterTemp which does in fact use 12 gauge).

Sounds like a fun weekend coming up for me!

 

[ajw22]

I would use PA or QF GFCI CBs depending on what is available and cost. If all was equal I would get a PA.

Use THWN 12 gauge wire for your rewiring. You need to rewire from the CB to the device.

Use standard color coding for the wires...

Black/red/blue for hot wires
White for neutrals
Green for ground