Low speed pumps versus cleaning

[peacefulkancer]

At the beginning of the summer I changed out my old single-speed pump for a VS pump. As the summer has worn on I have found myself struggling to find a balance between running the pump at low speed and keeping the pool clean. I have 4 palm trees in my yard that shed these little dainty fluffy things and the neighbor's tree has mini-helicopters all that stay on the top of the water.

How do you all run low speed and clean?

When running at low speeds my skimmer doesn't seem to work that well. The side suction Barracuda G3 also doesn't seem to work that well (it works OK if I turn it 100% to side suction).

Recently got the PoolSkim but I feel like either it doesn't work as well as I had hoped or the lower speeds don't work. I did replace my return nozzles to smaller ones to help with pressure on the PoolSkim. PoolSkim does suction but doesn't clear the pool as I had hoped. Might be a product of where my returns are at (2 returns + 1 that PoolSkim is on). Figured with all the light, fluffy materials on top that the PoolSkim would have it easy with this but they almost seem too light?

Since I want to run low speed I'm sending my G3 to the sideline and ordered a S200.

I need to get a diverter valve I believe as my pool doesn't have one so I'm getting no circulation on the bottom (just bought this house a year ago).

To get things on top, anyone ever try the PoolDevil or a SkimmerMotion or a Skim-It Skimmer rake?

Or am I missing something else here with my settings?

 

[mknauss]

Good choice on the robot. You will be amazed at how well it cleans.

How many returns do you have? Once you no longer have the suction side cleaner all your suction should be to the skimmer. No need for any main drain suction. Get a few ping pong balls and drop in the water and see if adjusting your return directions might improve your skimming.

 

[SDor]

I start the day with a couple hours of higher rpms to effectively skim, then run ~8 hrs on low (where skimming doesn't work very well).

When there's a lot of tree droppings in the air, I have a button programmed on my pump to run higher for 2 hrs to skim before or while people are using the pool.

Works for me.

 

[peacefulkancer]

Good choice on the robot. You will be amazed at how well it cleans.

How many returns do you have? Once you no longer have the suction side cleaner all your suction should be to the skimmer. No need for any main drain suction. Get a few ping pong balls and drop in the water and see if adjusting your return directions might improve your skimming.

I have 3 total returns. See the attachment (skimmer orange circle, returns blue circles). I've also labeled the flows and how strong they are. One concern I have is not an easy fix. Due to the wall before the skimmer the water many times passes by the skimmer. I could change the rotation from CC to CW however, the one return can't face CW so I kind of feel stuck with a CC direction. Right now the PoolSkim is on that one return.

No need to have any flow to the main drain? How does the water below water line get cycled if nothing is going to drain?

I start the day with a couple hours of higher rpms to effectively skim, then run ~8 hrs on low (where skimming doesn't work very well).

When there's a lot of tree droppings in the air, I have a button programmed on my pump to run higher for 2 hrs to skim before or while people are using the pool.

Works for me.

What are the RPMs that you are using for low and high? For the low RPM setting I basically dialed it down until my IC40 would read good flow.

 

[mknauss]

No need to have any flow to the main drain? How does the water below water line get cycled if nothing is going to drain?

Many pools have no main drain. The natural convection of the water due to temperature variations and also when you use your robot there is no need for the main drain flow. You can have it pull a minuscule amount if you wish so the water in the line stays clean.

 

[Jimrahbe]

pf,

Does your skimmer have a working Weir door? Is the water level about kept half way up the mouth of the skimmer or lower?

When you check your skimmer basket is it empty? Obviously, the more stuff falling into your pool the more you will need to skim. Skimmers are slow acting devices... a lot of stuff will float past the skimmer on the first pass. Mine do not "reach out" into the pool and grab debris... (that would be nice though.. )

I run my pump at 1200 rpm most of the time and ramp that up to 1500 for an hour a couple of times a day.

I have two rent houses that only have one skimmer.. one only has two returns and the other has three returns. Both of them run the same basic pump schedule. Neither works as well as my house which has two skimmers, but they both work ok. The one with only two returns has a nearby tree that drops 1 foot square leaves which will fill up the skimmer in a heart beat, so it seems to be skimming fine.

Thanks,

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

Neither of the rent house have working main drains, so that is not your issue..

 

[SDor]

My high speed is 2800, low is 1500. 1500 because below that my heater will not run. However, your mileage will vary.

 

[zea3]

Your low speed may be set too low. I had a 2 speed 1hp pump and ran my pump on low with 1 skimmer, 1 return, and no main drain. My poolskim worked fine. You could either bump up your low speed a bit to get good skimming or block off 1 or 2 of the returns. The force of the water coming out of the return generates the vortex in the poolskim that sucks in the debris. I got mine due to my neighbor's crepe myrtles that dropped every stinking bloom in my pool and would clog my skimmer basket. Wet crepe myrtle blooms are similar to having a skimmer full of wet toilet paper. The blooms mostly dropped in the heat of the afternoon, so if your debris has a similar pattern you may be able to run a little higher for a couple of hours in the afternoon to clear the debris.

 

[norcalpool1]

Max speed setting: 2800rpm.

Regular pump schedule: 8am to 7pm, 1500rpm (turns out it pushes about 17gpm). Filter pressure is usually at 3bars.
When Solar is on (8am to 6pm), the pump is set to push 22gpm (for five panels). I have noticed that the pump usually runs at 1850rpm and the filter pressure is usually at 7bars.
When polaris 380 cleaner schedule is on (one hour run, two runs per day, once at 11am and then again at 4pm), the speed is set to 1800rpm.

 

[peacefulkancer]

pf,

Does your skimmer have a working Weir door? Is the water level about kept half way up the mouth of the skimmer or lower?

When you check your skimmer basket is it empty? Obviously, the more stuff falling into your pool the more you will need to skim. Skimmers are slow acting devices... a lot of stuff will float past the skimmer on the first pass. Mine do not "reach out" into the pool and grab debris... (that would be nice though.. )

I run my pump at 1200 rpm most of the time and ramp that up to 1500 for an hour a couple of times a day.

I have two rent houses that only have one skimmer.. one only has two returns and the other has three returns. Both of them run the same basic pump schedule. Neither works as well as my house which has two skimmers, but they both work ok. The one with only two returns has a nearby tree that drops 1 foot square leaves which will fill up the skimmer in a heart beat, so it seems to be skimming fine.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Neither of the rent house have working main drains, so that is not your issue..

Skimmer does have a weir door that opens and closes. I would say that the normal water level is above half way on the mouth (definitely now since it is monsoon and has been raining). Is it better above, at, or below half?

When I check the basket it generally has stuff in it. The palm tree fluff/seeds many times like to float above the basket.

"Pool" setting on the SL is 1610 RPM. "Spa" setting is at 2450 RPM. Just testing two flows to see if the PoolSkim works better on one setting or the other.

My high speed is 2800, low is 1500. 1500 because below that my heater will not run. However, your mileage will vary.

Maybe I can run lower. No heater on my pool to be a limiter.

Your low speed may be set too low. I had a 2 speed 1hp pump and ran my pump on low with 1 skimmer, 1 return, and no main drain. My poolskim worked fine. You could either bump up your low speed a bit to get good skimming or block off 1 or 2 of the returns. The force of the water coming out of the return generates the vortex in the poolskim that sucks in the debris. I got mine due to my neighbor's crepe myrtles that dropped every stinking bloom in my pool and would clog my skimmer basket. Wet crepe myrtle blooms are similar to having a skimmer full of wet toilet paper. The blooms mostly dropped in the heat of the afternoon, so if your debris has a similar pattern you may be able to run a little higher for a couple of hours in the afternoon to clear the debris.

I doubt I'm too low honestly. I get a vortex in the PoolSkim but after trapping debris in the vortex, it never seems to push them into the bag. So once the pump turns off, they float away. Now that I think about it maybe this is less a product of the PoolSkim and more a product of what I'm trying to skim. As I said above, in my main skimmer the palm fluff many times is floating on the top of the water above the skimmer - it stays there because of the weir door.

With that said, I'm wondering if something like the PoolDevil would work better than the PoolSkim as it pushes everything immediately into a bag versus the PoolSkim which tries to suck in the debris. The palm fuzzies are pretty resilient to sinking. Even when water logged most of them still float.

Max speed setting: 2800rpm.

Regular pump schedule: 8am to 7pm, 1500rpm (turns out it pushes about 17gpm). Filter pressure is usually at 3bars.
When Solar is on (8am to 6pm), the pump is set to push 22gpm (for five panels). I have noticed that the pump usually runs at 1850rpm and the filter pressure is usually at 7bars.
When polaris 380 cleaner schedule is on (one hour run, two runs per day, once at 11am and then again at 4pm), the speed is set to 1800rpm.

Maybe I need to play with the settings some. I suppose I will be changing things in a major way once I get the S200 robot. Then I will just have to play with what works for the skimmer and the rest of the pool equipment (mainly the IC40 flow).

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

The higher the water at the skimmer mouth the less skimming action you get. The lower the better, but you need to make sure you don't run out of water.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[peacefulkancer]

P,

The higher the water at the skimmer mouth the less skimming action you get. The lower the better, but you need to make sure you don't run out of water.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I'm lowering the water line. And I shouldn't run out of water as I have an auto refill. Going through some growing pains as I switch from a single speed to a VS and a side-suction to a S200 robot.

 

[peacefulkancer]

How did everyone pick their RPMs to run at and how did you pick for how long?

With me having a IC40 I feel like I have to pick a flow that will be enough to activate the IC40, otherwise I am just circulating (which isn't a bad thing, but I want to be chlorinating). Did others pick their RPMs based on other equipment's flow requirements or something else?

BTW- lowered the water line by maybe a 0.5". The palm trees quit littering the place so I don't have as much floating debris falling in the pool so hard to say how much improvement I get on my skimming. The S200 is doing great. Always seems to be picking up "mud" which is just an accumulation of dust I'm sure.

 

[Jimrahbe]

pf,

I run at 1200 RPM, because my IC40 flow switch closes at about 1100 RPM.. I recommend you ramp down your speed until the no flow light comes on. (Turns red) and then ramp it up in steps and find out where it just turns green.. Then add 100 RPM and use that as your minimum speed. And I agree with you... if you are circulating water and not running your SWCG you are just wasting energy..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[peacefulkancer]

pf,

I run at 1200 RPM, because my IC40 flow switch closes at about 1100 RPM.. I recommend you ramp down your speed until the no flow light comes on. (Turns red) and then ramp it up in steps and find out where it just turns green.. Then add 100 RPM and use that as your minimum speed. And I agree with you... if you are circulating water and not running your SWCG you are just wasting energy..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim R.,
It has been a while, but I believe I did as you said when I first set it up. Maybe I can redo and get it lower.

How long do you run it and how did you pick that time?

-Kyle

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kyle,

I run my pump 24/7... not because I have too, but because I want too. It costs me less than $20 bucks a month, so cost is not an issue.

I personally like to run my SWCG at a low output % and generate a little chlorine all the time vs. running the SWCG at 100% and for a short period of time. I also like the fact that I am skimming all the time. I run at 1200 RPM most of time and my automation ramps that up to 1500 about three times a day for an hour to help with the skimming. To be honest, I'm not sure ramping up to 1500 has any real effect on skimming, but I have been too lazy to change the programming.

I do not have a heater, which normally means that I can run at a lower RPM and still turn on the flow switch in the SWCG, than most people with heaters.

I know if I had higher electrical rates, or if I had time of use restrictions, I would most likely not run 24/7.

In your pool, an IC40 will produce 13 ppm of FC in 24 hours when set at 100% output.. That is .54 ppm/hour. So, if your pool used 3 ppm of FC per day, then you could reduce your run time to 6 hours.

Or you could run 24/7 with the cell set at about 25% output... You could also pick any time/output in between and use that. It is really just whatever works best for you.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[peacefulkancer]

Jim R.,
I think the problem I'm facing is that as the filter ages, the flow changes. This is logical and expected; however, annoying.

When on POOL mode I am at 1610 RPM with 286 watts at 20GPM
When on SPA mode I am at 2450 RPM with 868 watts and 40GPM

If I clean my filter then the flow switch works on POOL mode. After a while POOL mode will not work and I have to up the speed.

In looking at the manual (I should have done this a while ago) here (pdf page 21) it looks like Pentair recommends that the minimum flow be 25GPM.

I'll have to see what the system reads when I clean it next so I can compare the above numbers better. And with that said, I feel like I am cleaning my filters A LOT. I've only had the system for like 5 months and have already done a complete tear down, clean, and DE recharge twice on the filter now.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kyle,

I only clean my filter twice a year and could probably go all year if I wanted...

If you have had to clean your Quad 80 filter twice in five months, then something is wrong.

I suspect that you have an algae bloom (even if you can't see it yet) and is causing your filter to fill up quickly. If this were my pool I would do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. (OCLT)

Here is how.. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

It is also possible, although unlikely, that your filter is plumbed backwards.. This has happened on a number of times with the Pentair Quad filters. Show us a pic of your filter so that we can see the input and output plumbing and a picture of your multiport valve showing the P/N...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[peacefulkancer]

Here is the valve configuration.



I even disconnected the filter from port and water does indeed go into inlet.

I no doubt have algae. But that is the catch-22 - my system runs fine at 1610RPM with the IC40 producing. Then at some point the system "slows down" and no longer works at the 1610RPM. Between the time I catch the IC40 not operating and bumping up the RPM to get the IC40 I will have an algae bloom. So I'm sure I fail the OCLT at this very time. Once I clean the filters and the IC40 starts working at 1610RPM everything passes the tests/levels fine.

FYI: Back in March my pool turned into a swamp due to stuff quit working. Then when I installed all new equipment I shocked the pool on a spectacular level to ensure that everything was killed off, drained, then refilled (the CYA was off the TF100's capability, which is why I refilled).

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

my system runs fine at 1610RPM with the IC40 producing. Then at some point the system "slows down" and no longer works at the 1610RPM.

Double-check the Schedules on your EasyTouch. You may inadvertently have it programmed to slow down.