Looking to build a lap pool, South Carolina: ?, Liner vs. Gunite

WildSwimCat

Member
Jul 30, 2021
9
Charleston SC
My wife and I (and our 18 month old daughter) recently moved into our new-built home in the lowcountry of South Carolina, and are looking to have a pool built. We're going a little different than usual though; we're looking to have a proper 25y (or meters) lap pool, at whatever width is reasonable; I was a college swimmer, and my wife likes to swim for exercise, although between shutdowns over the past year and care for our girl she hasn't been able to get out much. So far our daughter loves water, so we're hoping she'll enjoy her own pool as well (she has at least the little blow up one she has).

I've been in contact so far with three builders, each with a different build method; one concrete, one hybrid polymer walls braced with concrete piers, and one which would be a joined fiberglass pool. In addition to the lap lane, we'd also want some sort of 'tanning ledge'/shallow area to lounge/play in. My initial thought was ~75'x15', but that was just a swag as to what would fit and not be 'too' narrow; the hybrid polymer contractor told me that going above 10' wide drastically increases the price due to the water load on the long edge, so they're working up a proposal for 75'x10', while the joined fiberglass is more like 8' wide. Shallow area would either be at an end or in the middle, so 'T' shaped or 'L' shaped, just with very exaggerated proportions.

Thoughts/things to consider? In some other searching, I've already seen lane lines mentioned as a way to reduce chop, so I've mentioned that and been told it is doable, though haven't seen it listed on a formal proposal yet (I only have that from the hybrid contractor so far, fiberglass has told me I'll get something late next week and concrete we don't meet with for another week after that). We have plenty of space; we built in the middle of a 10 acre lot, without HOA, so we're well clear of our setbacks. Something that did come to mind, though; we're on well water, that needs some decent treatment to not smell. It's treated with water softener salt; assuming we get a 'salt system', would that take care of the water smell in the pool? We'd be running the pool from before the softener, so we didn't burn through that faster than we already do.

Thanks!
 
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Wow, I'm jealous...I would have liked 75' but I ran out of budget, haha, so I only got 52'. My pool is still being built...I had to keep it narrow due to the space I was working with so part of the pool will only be 8' wide, part is 11' wide and then I think at the sunshelf, it's about 17' wide. I'm on well also...there are a lot of houses in my neighborhood with pools and no one has mentioned anything about the smell being an issue and I assume they are using the water before the softener.
 
Also, I don't know how hot the water gets in SC but since you are a "real" swimmer, you probably don't like a hot pool for swimming laps so you might want to look into a chiller. I'm not getting one right away but after swimming in 90 degree water this summer in the public pool, I'm beginning to question that decision!
 
Chiller is an interesting option...when we were looking at swim spas I was told they didn't really exist for them, but I'll have to ask about that for the 'real' pool builders. Another option I read about (I think on here somewhere?) was evaporative cooling; mounting a spray off of one of your water jets apparently works well, though at the cost of losing water to evaporation.

As for being a 'real' swimmer...that was a good 15 years ago, and I'm not planning on "training", at least like I used to. I tried triathlons but hated being on a bike that long, so I'm not going to be complaining about swimming if the water gets above 80 degrees. I just want to be able to stretch my arms out, because I'm still reasonably efficient stroke count wise, and don't want to feel like I'm doing a flip turn every 10 seconds.
 
Yes, also called an aerator...my public pool FINALLY got one yesterday and it def helps cool the water at least in the area that it's hitting. That's what I think I will try this year (if my pool is finished while it is hot) and hopefully that works well enough. I'm training for an Ironman right now and yes, the time on the bike is crazy. Good luck with the build, can't wait to see it!
 
A definite ‘yes’ on a big set of lane lines - or even two strings per side. Chop in a narrow pool can be pretty darn intense.

Neat project, and as a former competitive swimmer myself, I’m super jealous!

Alternatively, you could probably add jets and returns to a more typical pool for an ‘endless pool’ setup for a lot less $$$, and less of a commitment to swimming than a specifically laid out pool, landscaping, hardscaping, etc. That might also make resale a bit better if you were to ever want to sell your house/property.

My little yet-to-be-installed 10x20x4.5 fiberglass pool is apparently a popular candidate for an endless pool setup and it’s pretty tiny. I’m not going that route, so I’ll use the typical tether line to hold me in place while I swim and injure my shoulders :LOL:

Dan
 
I did consider the endless pool as well. Wife decided this is sort of a 'go big or go home' item. Fingers crossed, my wife and my careers will remain stable and allow us to stay in our home (we designed it for long term); I don't think we could handle trying to move/build again, after spending nearly 18 months getting our current home built (and the nearly 2 years of planning that went into it).

TampaKathy; good luck with the ironman! Those are serious business. Completing a half is what convinced me I didn't want anything with those long distances on a bicycle...and this is coming from someone who actually enjoyed running 50k trail ultras.
 
what a fun adventure you are on with a new pool!

One thing I want to address is the kids in the family. You and I both know they WILL try to jump from one side to the next if it seems halfway possible! I would go a bit wider to put that thought out of their minds and it will help with the waves and such. Now if you want the purrfect pool I say get a L shaped pool!! It is the best of all worlds. The "foot" is all one depth and purrfect for playing volley ball, Horse, Watermelon Ball (look this one up if you have not see it before), ect. Then you have the "leg" for swimming and diving fun!
 
Met with the first builder to come back with a quote so far, and had a chat with him the other day. His comment on cost was that it's mainly a function of surface area, so I'm changing my idea a little to widen it in the middle (where we could do other things in it, like play water volleyball, my wife played in college) so we can do more with it than just swim laps, and at least this builder said that 'tanning ledges' (not sure how deep they can go) are priced differently (not the full cost of the regular depth pool; that's the 16" area on the sketch, but that could be whatever it needed to be). 10'x75' is 750 square feet, this idea has the main pool body at 800 square feet, so not too much of an increase. 8' wide is still wide enough for a lap lane and lane lines, and thinking 16'x25' would be a good 'main play area'. Depth wasn't really an issue, said they could go down to 6' without difficulty, so put that down at the end of the lap lane where someone could do racing dives if they wanted (heck, in high school we had a pool in our league where diving end was only 3'6'!)

PB said they use Pentair equipment, which I've heard spoken well of here, and said they could do a glacier chiller to help keep things cool over the summer. Recommended a bubbler in the tanning ledge for kid to play with.

Thoughts on a layout like this?
 

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Now that is a very interesting design right there. It does seem to have a space for everything! The only real thought I have it so have the "corners" rounded a bit to help lessen the hurt when someone runs into them while playing.
 

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So I've heard back an initial concept from the gunite builder that we had contacted, along with an update from the hybrid/liner PB. The cost for our design, in either gunite or liner (the liner pool I guess is a polymer wall reinforced with concrete beams?) is looking to be roughly the same (I was expecting gunite to be more expensive). I guess maybe gunite becomes more competitive as the pool gets larger?

Anyway, I'm trying to get a handle on what method of building would be best for a pool shape such as ours. Gunite may be a bit more flexible, since they said they price more based on perimeter than surface area, so we may have the ability to have slightly larger 'shallow areas'. The PB who does the hybrid/liner pool also does gunite (or one of the concrete varieties), and he recommended against concrete as it would be susceptible to cracking due to shifting land (the low country does have a some small 'earthquakes' from time to time, apparently there is a small fault line not too far away). Of course, that is also his sales pitch.

So, with a large pool, do we run a risk of cracking in concrete/gunite? Is that a good reason to go with a liner pool? Or if gunite and liner are roughly the same price anyway, is gunite going to be an option we'll be happier with long term?

Thanks!
 
The PB who does the hybrid/liner pool also does gunite (or one of the concrete varieties), and he recommended against concrete as it would be susceptible to cracking due to shifting land (the low country does have a some small 'earthquakes' from time to time, apparently there is a small fault line not too far away). Of course, that is also his sales pitch.

Yeah, sure he says he will do gunite. But does he do it with off the shelf engineering plans or is a soil survey done of your property and an engineer creates and stamps the plans that are custom to your situation? A properly designed gunite pool will have the supports for shifting land and sufficient rebar to resist any cracking.

If done correctly a gunite pool is superior to a liner pool and will last longer.

Look through...

 
You sir, have piqued my interest. I'm an engineer (although without the stamp...my father has his PE, but not in structures), but sounds like there is some more digging when it comes to the details that I can do. Our home builder ran into some issues when it came to our foundation; half the house was over very firm substrate, but the other half, well, wasn't.
 
Indeed the earthquake risk is real. HUGE one here in 1886 that rang church bells in Boston. Here is a discussion by friends of ours who wrote Upheaval in Charleston: Earthquake and Murder on the Eve of Jim Crow . As stated above, gunite is far superior. I don't want to muddy the waters, but if you want another option, I am happy to discuss. I don't know if your builder installs it or not. Start up is much easier and some other pros.
 
Option 3 : concrete wall with liner. Mine will be built like your house foundation with a sand floor (could also use Vermiculite) and they drop a liner in and call it a day. The walls are 10-12 inches thick and will be found by archeologists one day long in the distant future.
 
I think I've decided we're going to go with the gunite pool; we just seem to get more for the money, especially at the size we're going with. I've had some discussion with the sales representative, and forwarded on our soil survey, and she ran it by her manager who didn't think what we had would pose any significant difference from what they normally build (no strange retaining walls, etc.).

Here's what they're proposing to us:

Waterline dimensions: 16'x75' (modified slightly from the L shape shown above; now the 16' wide portion will be ~36' long, then narrowing to 10' for the remainder, with two '6'x6' "tanning ledges" on the sides of the wider end of the pool.

Water depths: 4' to 6' (6' in the narrow lap-only part, 4' elsewhere except the ledges).

Waterline tile: porcelain or ceramic, frost proof, $12/sq ft allowance

7 Pentair Glo-Bright LEDs (controllable, color or dimmable white)

Dual anti-vortex main drains, 2" suction lines, anti-entrapment

Quartz interior finish: quoted with 10 year warranty, 15 year warranty options ~$10k-$15k upcharge depending on grade and finish.

Tavertine pool coping, 12"x24"x1.25" Eased Edge

Pentair VS3050 Variable speed pump with Freeze Protection

Pentair clean and clear plus filtration

Pentair easy touch 4 automation w/wireless remote

Pentair salt system chlorinator

IntelliPH

2 Bermuda Pentair Pool Skimmers

Autofill

Schedule 40 PVC pipe and fittings

Maintenance Package

Construction: Bid includes Permits, insurance, excavation and dirt haul (might get a little back here, I want to keep the dirt to fill/grade other areas of our property).

STeel reinforced concrete shell #3-9" OC (Grade 60 rebar)

8" structural walls and floor

10"-12" beam

4 point equipotential bonding of deck, pool and equipment (not sure what this means)

Electrical hookup by licensed electrician

Testing, startup, 3 months of service

Lifetime structural warranty, 3 year warranty on pentair equipment.

Options (that we may consider:)

Heat/Cool Pump: $7,800
Smartphone interface: $1k
In-floor cleaning: $10k
Robot pool cleaner: $1540
Additional lights: $850
Umbrella Inserts: $150 (might want 4 for backstroke flags)
Laneline hooks: TBD (she needed to discuss with her 'commercial pool' counterparts).
Pool cover (vs. fence). Their local pool cover supplier can do a two sided pool cover, one for the 16' wide portion and one for the 10' wide, which would meet in the center.

Any major red flags that pop up? Anything else I should be questioning? All pentair equipment, which from what I gather here is well rated, and they are a long standing local pool builder here in the lowcountry. How do people like covers vs. fences here? A big fence would be a little annoying, and our little rugrat is already capable of defeating fences and doors at a year and a half, so the additional cost of an automated cover I think might be worth it from a safety aspect, because we can barely keep her out of water now, let alone when she has a pool in her own backyard...
 
My wife and I (and our 18 month old daughter) recently moved into our new-built home in the lowcountry of South Carolina, and are looking to have a pool built. We're going a little different than usual though; we're looking to have a proper 25y (or meters) lap pool, at whatever width is reasonable; I was a college swimmer, and my wife likes to swim for exercise, although between shutdowns over the past year and care for our girl she hasn't been able to get out much. So far our daughter loves water, so we're hoping she'll enjoy her own pool as well (she has at least the little blow up one she has).

I've been in contact so far with three builders, each with a different build method; one concrete, one hybrid polymer walls braced with concrete piers, and one which would be a joined fiberglass pool. In addition to the lap lane, we'd also want some sort of 'tanning ledge'/shallow area to lounge/play in. My initial thought was ~75'x15', but that was just a swag as to what would fit and not be 'too' narrow; the hybrid polymer contractor told me that going above 10' wide drastically increases the price due to the water load on the long edge, so they're working up a proposal for 75'x10', while the joined fiberglass is more like 8' wide. Shallow area would either be at an end or in the middle, so 'T' shaped or 'L' shaped, just with very exaggerated proportions.

Thoughts/things to consider? In some other searching, I've already seen lane lines mentioned as a way to reduce chop, so I've mentioned that and been told it is doable, though haven't seen it listed on a formal proposal yet (I only have that from the hybrid contractor so far, fiberglass has told me I'll get something late next week and concrete we don't meet with for another week after that). We have plenty of space; we built in the middle of a 10 acre lot, without HOA, so we're well clear of our setbacks. Something that did come to mind, though; we're on well water, that needs some decent treatment to not smell. It's treated with water softener salt; assuming we get a 'salt system', would that take care of the water smell in the pool? We'd be running the pool from before the softener, so we didn't burn through that faster than we already do.

Thanks!
Regarding water that smells from a well. I deal with that is the SW Houston area. Our HOA is on several wells. The water untreated makes you gag. I had the water tested at an independent water lab, didn't believe the water company. Note you get what you pay for in water testing, make sure it's a good lab. I knew the water was hard but it was very hard. Additionally, it was extremely high in Manganese. So high that just a water softener could not control it. I added an additional tank with Filox(2010) to filter out the excess iron and manganese. The new product is Katalox Light instead of Filox. I do have to periodically clean the resin in both tanks, Iron Out powder works, directions on jug. One sign you have Manganese is the toilet tanks start to show that orange/pink stain and then if ignored turns black. You do have to watch out for iron bacteria too especially on a private well. Regarding water softeners, get the basic tank with Clack or Fleck controllers, there is no need for name brand expensive units. I would truck in the initial water to fill the work and then top off from water from the softened filtered water.
 
-Pentair salt system chlorinator- what size/model?

Make sure to get model numbers for ALL equipment and share it here so we can make sure it is correct for your pool size.


-Testing, startup, 3 months of service-PLEASE do not rely on them to take full care of your pool. You will need to have your own GOOD test kit as seen here: Test Kits Compared Their way of starting your new plaster may not be the best way to do it. We will help yo ulearn how to start it up so it last as long as possible.

-In-floor cleaning: $10k-just say nope. The robot will be all you need.

Fence vs cover-hard one for sure when the little is showing they can/will overcome any obstacle throw in front of them. Cover may be the safest for a little one like that.
 

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