Looking for advices/recommendations on the pool automation and energy efficiency

hagani

0
Jul 17, 2018
37
Robbinsville, NJ
Hello everyone,

We just had a pool installed this summer and unfortunately our PB didn't suggest any energy saving options for our install as well as any pool automation system. Not even variable speed pump.

Now when my electric bill went up 80% in one month I am going to be looking for some options to make my pool energy efficient and at the same time more convenient by installing some sort of automation system.

My current equipment:

PENTAIR Superflo High Performance 1.5HP pump (model number SF-N1-1-1/2A)
PENTAIR SAND DOLLAR High rate sand filter
PENTAIR MASTERTEMP 250 pool heater
PENTAIR Intellichlor Salt Chlorine Generator IC40
INTERMATIC Low Voltage pool transformer PX100
PENTAIR Intellibrite color changing LED (2pc)

Any advice or suggestion on how to make this set up more energy efficient (even with some equipment needed to be replaced) and suitable for further automation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
Your pump is the significant consumer of electricity. Changing to a VS pump will make a difference.

How much do you run your pump? What is the % setting on your IC40? How many gallons in your pool?
 
I run the pump 12 hours a day (7am-7pm)

IC40 set to 2-20% and I believe our pool is about 6,000 gallons but I am checking with the pool manufacturer right now.

How much of the savings we can expect by switching to VS pump and which one would you recommend considering future automation upgrades?

Thank you.
 
If you are running your IC40 at 20% you can up it to 80% and reduce your pump runtime to 3 hours. That cuts your electrical cost by 75%.

Do you have an automation system? How do you control your pump runtime?
 
If you are running your IC40 at 20% you can up it to 80% and reduce your pump runtime to 3 hours. That cuts your electrical cost by 75%.

Do you have an automation system? How do you control your pump runtime?

I don't have any automation system. This is another subject I am seeking help on. Pump controls by cheap mechanical timer installed by PB

How increase from 20% to 80% will affect amount of chlorine even if time will be reduced to 3 hours?
 
Time and percent are interchangeable. 2 hours at 100% will produce the same amount of chlorine as 10 hours at 20%. Raise the output % and lower the pump run time to save on electricity.
 
hagani,

Just for reference.. You have a 1.5 HP single speed pump, which you run 12 hours a day, and your electrical bill went up 80%..

I have a 3HP VS pump that I run 24/7 at 1200 RPM, for less than $20 a month... at 1200 RPM, my pump only uses about 175 watts...

Your pool builder did you no favors by installing a SWCG and a single speed pump. With a saltwater pool, a VS pump is almost a requirement.

The good thing is that your cell is large compared to your pool, so that will allow you to reduce the pump run time, as Allen has pointed out...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I don't have any automation system. This is another subject I am seeking help on. Pump controls by cheap mechanical timer installed by PB

How increase from 20% to 80% will affect amount of chlorine even if time will be reduced to 3 hours?

If you are considering automation you should upgrade to a VS pump at that time. The VS pump should be compatible with the automation you get.

Increase SWG 4X and reduce pump run by 4X and you have the same chlorine output.
 
OK, this is a long shot, but my PB managed to pull this off for me. How's your sweet talk?

Pentair offers a significant upgrade in warranty if you buy certain components at the same time. Instead of 60 days or 1 year, they'll upgrade you to 3 years if you purchase a bundle.

Here are the details:

Warranty - Pool and Spa Product Registration & Warranty - Pentair

You may have already qualified, did your PB register you for the 3-year extended warranty? Even if he didn't, this is what I'd try:

Ask your PB, or maybe even try yourself, to contact Pentair with some sort of story and see if they'll give you the three-year warranty on everything: the new pump and controller, along with everything else you bought. Your PB could pre-arrange this, before you buy the new stuff, as in: "Hey Pentair, I've got a customer that just bought this, and this, and this, and now is willing to buy even more stuff, this and that, if you'll throw in the 3-year warranty on everything." That's exactly how my PB did it.

I bought two groups of Pentair gear, months apart. Neither group qualified for the bundle warranty upgrade. And, technically, even together they didn't because a filter was not in either group. But, like you, I bought so much Pentair gear that they gave me the 3-year warranty for everything, both groups.

I gotta say, I'm scratchin' my head about your PB's choices. This is 2018, with electricity on the rise. You just don't build a pool, especially a salt water pool, without a VS pump. He really should give you credit for the 1-speed, go after the 3-year warranty, and sell you the VS pump. And personally, I wouldn't own a pool without automation...
 
hagani,

Just for reference.. You have a 1.5 HP single speed pump, which you run 12 hours a day, and your electrical bill went up 80%..

I have a 3HP VS pump that I run 24/7 at 1200 RPM, for less than $20 a month... at 1200 RPM, my pump only uses about 175 watts...

Your pool builder did you no favors by installing a SWCG and a single speed pump. With a saltwater pool, a VS pump is almost a requirement.

The good thing is that your cell is large compared to your pool, so that will allow you to reduce the pump run time, as Allen has pointed out...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you Jim
My next and first step would be replacing single speed pump with VS pump. I already realized this will bring my electric bill down a bit. Should I stay with Pentair or go with the different brand considering that I am going to install some sort of automation system?
Which automation system will you recommend?
 

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I've only ever owned Pentair, so that's what I know. I've been told it's as good or better as anything available.

Your [new] VS pump, SWG and automation should all be of the same brand. Most brands are proprietary in that they don't offer the most features, or any compatibility at all, unless they are from the same company. Heaters and filters can usually "jump ship" in that regard, though. You've got the Pentair SWG and light, and you'll get best performance out of both if you have a Pentair controller. And the Pentair pumps that go with that are some of the best in the industry. You pretty much have your choice made for you.

Jim R. can advise about the best setup for your pool.
 
I've only ever owned Pentair, so that's what I know. I've been told it's as good or better as anything available.

Your [new] VS pump, SWG and automation should all be of the same brand. Most brands are proprietary in that they don't offer the most features, or any compatibility at all, unless they are from the same company. Heaters and filters can usually "jump ship" in that regard, though. You've got the Pentair SWG and light, and you'll get best performance out of both if you have a Pentair controller. And the Pentair pumps that go with that are some of the best in the industry. You pretty much have your choice made for you.

Jim R. can advise about the best setup for your pool.

I guess I will stick with Pentair then!!

Thanks a lot!!
 
hagani,

I am a highly biased Pentair and VS pump kind of guy...:p

While I think buying a VS pump is a good idea, you could also save a lot of money by just reducing your pump run time. It is up to you.

If you plan to buy Pentair automation in the future, make sure that the VS pump that you buy is the Intelliflo. Pentair's automation will not control the Pentair SuperFlo VS...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
hagani,

I am a highly biased Pentair and VS pump kind of guy...:p

While I think buying a VS pump is a good idea, you could also save a lot of money by just reducing your pump run time. It is up to you.

If you plan to buy Pentair automation in the future, make sure that the VS pump that you buy is the Intelliflo. Pentair's automation will not control the Pentair SuperFlo VS...

Thanks,

Jim R.


Jim,

can you help me out with an automation setup? Kinda guide me what I need and how this will work?
 
hagani,

Here is something that I have posted before, but it will give you an idea of what automation (EasyTouch) can do...

It is easy for me to spend your money.. but don't let me talk you into anything. Many people have pools without automation and they work just fine. I do, however, think it is important to know the advantages and the disadvantages of having an automation system.

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as, Booster pumps, Spa blowers, landscape lights, etc…. The EasyTouch 8 has eight (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. Solar System. The EasyTouch has a built-in solar controller.. It does however use one of the valve outputs to run…

11. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

12. Variable Speed pumps... The EasyTouch can be programmed to adjust your pump’s speed. So when running just the pool, it can run slow, but when running your waterfall, it will automatically increase the speed to make your waterfall or other water features look exactly how you want them to look.

One last item... Never buy a "Lite" version of the EasyTouch.. it will have an "L" in the model number.. such as PSL4 or PL4... a cheap imitation of the real thing..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Note that in the coming months Pentair is coming out with a new line of automation called Intellicenter.

- - - Updated - - -

Note that in the coming months Pentair is coming out with a new line of automation called Intellicenter. Thread about it at Pentair IntelliCenter
 
Also note that it has been coming out "soon" for about two years and that at first blush it will be about twice as expensive as the old EasyTouch... :D

I do agree that it makes sense to give the new system a look before making any decisions..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Also note that Pentair has a tiered warranty program - something like 3 or 6 months if you install it yourself, 1 years if installed by a pool builder and 3 years if a specific bundles of Pentair products are installed at the same time. So if you plan to do a few upgrades it may pay to look at the bundles with extended warrantees.

Pentair does not make their products and programs simple to understand.
 
Hey guys,
Not to be argumentative or anything but FYI...

1. Intellicenter is NOT coming out in a few months. It is out now (2 of our members have already ordered it).
2. It's $300 dollars more than EasyTouch when you consider having to buy ScreenLogic etc (see the Pentair IntelliCenter thread.

Hope this updated info helps anyone looking at ALL options.
 
On the other hand...
Automation systems are ridiculously expensive considering they use antiquated technology, and restrict your choice of pool equipment to a single manufacturer, and in many cases to a specific model. You already own a SWG controller and would be purchasing a control panel that duplicates it’s function. If I’m reading correctly, you have a fairly simple pool with a heater, SWG timer, and some color changing lights. No spa, water features, solar heating system or other features.

I have a pool that has no pool automation system (other than an inexpensive solar control box). My pool has a SWG, infloor cleaning system, a spa, spa heater, pool and spa lights, solar heating and two pumps. One is an Intelliflo VS, the other a single speed for the spa.

My main pump comes on in the a.m., runs a cleaning program, switches to optimum speed for the SWG. The SWG is controled by a simple Intermatic timer (like the one you already have). When through chlorinating the pool it switches to a low speed for extra filtration, shuts down in the evening, and repeats the program the next day. If solar heat is called for and available, the solar control opens a valve and ramps up the pump speed. It returns control to the pump controller when finished.
All of this is done automatically using the pump’s internal timer, without any expense automation system.

My lights, spa pump and heater are all controlled by Smart Switches I recently added and may be switched by voice control (Alexa) or from my iPhone from any location. The cost of all the Smart Switches was under $200.

I’m not sure I would recommend you spend $$$ on an elaborate automation system for a simple pool. Especially since you would be:
A. duplicating equipment you already own,
B. severely limiting your future choices for pool equipment, and
C. not have any use for many of the features you would be paying for.
 

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