Issue with Intermatic Timer

[HermanTX]

Trying to help a friend that has a dedicated timer for Pentair LED lights.
The clock on the Intermatic Timer was not rotating (it did previously).
The inside cover stated Model 103P. Unhooked the wires and removed the timer. See below


Ordered the T103M and connected identical to the original hookup


The motor still does not rotate the timer. It may be a bad unit but thought I would ask here for advice.
Additional schematic of wiring



Then this morning, I reversed the 2 white wires from the motor between the A and 1 Terminals - still no movement on motor
I then tested each of the terminals with a volt meter - see output below with manual switch OFF and then manual switch ON
BTW - the lights work when switched manually on and off. It is just the timer motor that does not work.


So before I return it, I want to know is there any other test that I could run or any errors in what I have done.
The units are identical in model numbers and it was rewired exactly how it was originally wired.
The gears on the old unit look worn so that is my thought as to why the timer was not rotating.

Also, since this is a Pentair light, the power from the CB panel goes first to a little box that has the color selection then that routes to the Timer box as Power IN to the timer. Then power out to the Transformer then to the light junction box. The voltage seems to be correct. And it is constant power to both the A and 1 Terminals which powers the timer motor.

@1poolman1 I know you have a lot of knowledge on timers so maybe you can offer some feedback?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Herman,

Your voltage test sheet looks correct to me..

I assume the motor is not 'bad' it is just the fact that it can't turn due to the gears being stuck..

It would not surprise me if the original motor is ok...

As a test, you can pull the motor back out so that it is not connected to the gears and I bet it rotates.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks Jim.
The old timer had some damage to the gear teeth that mesh with the face gear. So I am guessing that was causing the timer not to rotate freely due to additional friction.
The timer face is spring loaded so it would be difficult to hold it away from the main gear to see that rotate. Maybe I can see the small gear from the motor as that would rotate faster. Need to wait till the morning.

 

[ajw22]

Also, since this is a Pentair light, the power from the CB panel goes first to a little box that has the color selection then that routes to the Timer box as Power IN to the timer. Then power out to the Transformer then to the light junction box. The voltage seems to be correct. And it is constant power to both the A and 1 Terminals which powers the timer motor.

If the little box is the Color Sync Controller then the timer is wired at the wrong point.

Pressing the dial turns off power to the light which would turn off power to the timer and clock motor.

Wiring should be CB -> Timer -> Controller -> Transformer -> Lights

It does not sound like this is your clock motor problem if you have 120V at the motor.

You can unscrew the motor from the timer plate and see if the motor turns without it being connected to the gears.

 

[1poolman1]

Trying to help a friend that has a dedicated timer for Pentair LED lights.
The clock on the Intermatic Timer was not rotating (it did previously).
The inside cover stated Model 103P. Unhooked the wires and removed the timer. See below
View attachment 554024View attachment 554025View attachment 554026

Ordered the T103M and connected identical to the original hookup
View attachment 554031View attachment 554027View attachment 554028View attachment 554034

The motor still does not rotate the timer. It may be a bad unit but thought I would ask here for advice.
Additional schematic of wiring

View attachment 554035

Then this morning, I reversed the 2 white wires from the motor between the A and 1 Terminals - still no movement on motor
I then tested each of the terminals with a volt meter - see output below with manual switch OFF and then manual switch ON
BTW - the lights work when switched manually on and off. It is just the timer motor that does not work.
View attachment 554036

So before I return it, I want to know is there any other test that I could run or any errors in what I have done.
The units are identical in model numbers and it was rewired exactly how it was originally wired.
The gears on the old unit look worn so that is my thought as to why the timer was not rotating.

Also, since this is a Pentair light, the power from the CB panel goes first to a little box that has the color selection then that routes to the Timer box as Power IN to the timer. Then power out to the Transformer then to the light junction box. The voltage seems to be correct. And it is constant power to both the A and 1 Terminals which powers the timer motor.

@1poolman1 I know you have a lot of knowledge on timers so maybe you can offer some feedback?

Is there power (120V) at the two terminals that feed the motor? If so, the motor could be bad.

 

[HermanTX]

If the little box is the Color Sync Controller then the timer is wired at the wrong point.

Pressing the dial turns off power to the light which would turn off power to the timer and clock motor.

Wiring should be CB -> Timer -> Controller -> Transformer -> Lights

It does not sound like this is your clock motor problem if you have 120V at the motor.

You can unscrew the motor from the timer plate and see if the motor turns without it being connected to the gears.

View attachment 554056

Thanks Allen. At first view, I thought that wiring the color controller before the timer was a littler weird which is why I mentioned it. However, it has been working for years.
With the new timer in place, I am getting 120v to the clock motor and the lights work with the timer manual switch to ON. Refer to my voltage test across the 3 terminals. So this tells me the color controller is passing through the power.

I will go verify again and also look at the controller buttons.

 

[HermanTX]

Is there power (120V) at the two terminals that feed the motor? If so, the motor could be bad.

Per my testing and results shown in the photo - there is constant power to the 2 terminals where the motor is connected.

 

[HermanTX]

I did some more testing. The green button on the Pentair 600054 light controller turns on/off power to the Intermatic timer. Testing the A and 1 terminals on the Intermatic timer showed 120v power when button on and no voltage when button off. So it is not the light controller and the lights do work when manually switched on at the timer.
So unless I am overlooking something it appears to be a bad motor. Funny enough that is why I purchased a replacement because the old motor stopped.

 

[HermanTX]

To close this thread out. I received a replacement timer to the new one I purchased and wired it in just as the original. I was able to see the gears turning when powered up.
After putting it all in the box, tested the voltage with both manual on and off and received same data as before.
Definitely had a bad motor in the first replacement item and now this second replacement is working fine.
Thanks for your feedback.

 

[ajw22]

Lots of quality issues seem to be left in the supply chain since Covid.